The Chief Psychology Officer

Ep77 The Blueprint Revolution: Transforming Organisational Success

• Dr Amanda Potter CPsychol • Season 4 • Episode 77

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Ever wondered why traditional competency models often gather dust while organisations continue struggling with talent development? The answer might lie in a more holistic approach called "blueprinting" - a framework that's transforming how forward-thinking companies like Haven approach leadership development.

This eye-opening conversation with DeanO Giles, Head of Learning and Development at Haven, and Dr Amanda Potter, CEO of Zircon, reveals how blueprints differ fundamentally from competency frameworks by encompassing values, strengths, behaviours and skills while considering both external and internal organisational challenges. For Haven, with 39 unique holiday parks and a workforce that fluctuates from 5,000 to 14,000 seasonally, this flexibility proved crucial.

What truly sets blueprints apart is their ability to avoid the pitfalls of "profile matching" - that tendency to create homogeneous workforces by demanding everyone score at least average on all competencies. Instead, Haven's blueprint recognises that different roles, parks and situations require dialling up or down specific capabilities. The results speak for themselves: personalised learning journeys, improved recruitment outcomes, and enhanced succession planning.

Perhaps most impressively, Haven has kept their blueprint alive by embedding it throughout their talent cycle, from recruitment to development and performance conversations. As DeanO notes, "It can't just be a poster on a wall" - it must be a living document informing daily leadership practices. Their journey through 14 iterations before finalising their approach demonstrates the care needed to create something truly meaningful.

Whether you're frustrated with outdated competency models or simply seeking a more nuanced approach to talent development, this episode offers practical insights into creating a framework that truly reflects your organisation's unique purpose and challenges. How might your organisation benefit from seeing leadership through a blueprint lens?

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For more information about the BeTalent suite of tools and platform please contact: TheCPO@zircon-mc.co.uk

Kristian Lees Bell:

Welcome to this episode of the Chief Psychology Officer. I'm Kristian Lees-Bell, senior Consultant and Business Psychologist, and I'm here with Dr Amanda Potter, ceo of Zircon. Today we're going to be discussing the importance of researching and building a behavioral blueprint for organizational success. We've invited a client to join us today, dino Giles from Haven, who are part of Born Leisure.

Dr Amanda Potter:

Thank you, Kristian. Thank you Deano, welcome Deano.

Kristian Lees Bell:

Thank you, it's good to be here. Yeah, it's great to have you on the podcast. Deano, Could you introduce yourself?

Deano Giles:

So, as you say, my name is Deano, better known as I'm the Head of Learning and Development at Haven. Typically covers three main areas of skills leadership, talent succession and emerging talent, apprenticeships and early careers. So quite a vast boardness there, which is all great.

Dr Amanda Potter:

So, dino, in case people don't know of the organisation you work for, would you mind just telling them about the size and scope of the organisation you work for? Because I think that's what makes it so interesting, because it kind of gives the context for why this work that we're doing with you is so important.

Deano Giles:

Haven is a UK holiday park or leisure company. We have 39 parks across the nation two up in Scotland, several in Wales and then the remainder running throughout the English coastline. Typically, if we look look at our team size, we've got around 5,000 per team. We have a lot of seasonal team that join us typically in March and run all the way through to kind of November. Typically the duration of the opening hours or opening times at the parks and how much bigger does the population get?

Deano Giles:

So it can go up to anything between kind of 13,000 to 14,000.

Dr Amanda Potter:

That's why this conversation is so helpful, and so useful because it's the context in which we're going to be applying a blueprint. So thanks for answering those questions. That's great.

Kristian Lees Bell:

Amanda, how do you know Deano?

Dr Amanda Potter:

So we've known each other quite a few years now, which has been fab. We had a great time working for an organisation which I I loved actually, which was Monarch. So Monarch Airlines, a brilliant organization unfortunately doesn't exist now, but we had the great joy of working together when it did exist and it was through that work that we really built our bond, our trust and, gratefully, dino invited us then to tender for the work within Haven and we were very lucky because we won it. And over the last, over a year now it's been a long time we've been working with Haven, might even be two that we've been doing a lot of research within Haven and then thinking about standards and expectations externally and bringing all that together into a really great framework that the business can use.

Kristian Lees Bell:

Brilliant, and today we're here to talk about blueprints, and some people may not know what one of those is. So what is a blueprint? Amanda?

Dr Amanda Potter:

Most people will have heard of a competency model. I'm sure Deano will agree that the language of blueprints or competency models it changes over time depending on fashion. So maybe a decade ago or two decades ago we were very much talking about competencies. We then moved into capability frameworks because we were looking for more objectivity, reduce the subjectivity. Maybe we're including a little bit of skill in there. But now we're really interested in a very holistic look at behavior and performance and we title it within Zircon B Talent, we call that a blueprint, and that blueprint looks at all aspects of human behavior so that we can articulate what great looks like for a population or for an organization. And that blueprint of what great looks like is then a starting point for assessment of what great looks like is then a starting point for assessment, for development, for coaching, for facilitation, and it kind of works to provide a language for the journey of those employees through the life cycle of their career.

Kristian Lees Bell:

Deano, would you like to add anything?

Deano Giles:

I think it's pretty much covered. I think what I really like about the kind of the blueprint is it does tap into kind of many different layers and it's not just looking at behavioural skills, looking at strength and potential values or tenants as well. So the actual description or narrative that sits behind a blueprint you can really hone into a specific level or a specific role within the organisation also actually considering all the micro and macro challenges as well to make it really relevant for something that has longevity within a business like ours.

Kristian Lees Bell:

Thank you, and how is it different from a competency model? Amanda?

Dr Amanda Potter:

Deano's just given us some really great things there in his summary, because he mentioned values or tenets, he mentioned behaviours, he mentioned skills and expertise. They're all really important because I mentioned earlier that a blueprint is bigger than a competency model. It's bigger than a capability model. It's a framework that considers each of the different important aspects that will influence and have a dynamic impact on behavior. So what is important to an individual in other words, their values that will inherently have an impact on how that person behaves and interacts, or, for example, the skills that they learn the soft skills that they learn again will impact the way in which they interact and develop and focus on their behavior. How is it different to a competency model? Is that it is, firstly, broader, so it's much more inclusive of all the different aspects, and secondly, it's much more about focusing on the strategy, vision, purpose and goals of the organization and then articulating it in a way which is this is the direct, translatable language that people will understand in terms of the delivery of that vision.

Dr Amanda Potter:

I'm giving you a load of evidence here, loads of stuff, but Deano also said two other things that are really important. He talked about macro and micro drivers. Macro and micro drivers are also critical, because we need to understand what the challenges are within an organization to build a blueprint, and once we understand what the organization is aspiring to achieve and we understand what might stop it from achieving those things the challenges that Deano referred to we can then work out what do leaders or managers, or whatever population we're talking about, what do they need to do differently in order to overcome those challenges and to drive success? And that's what the blueprint's all about.

Kristian Lees Bell:

So for me to get this clear, in my head, blueprints are more complex, detailed, holistic. I think you mentioned representation of how to articulate what great looks like for an organisation. But why is a blueprint so important?

Deano Giles:

I think the blueprint really becomes everything that kind of drives success of the people within our organisation.

Deano Giles:

I think it creates clarity in the first instance around kind of what a specific role or level represents and kind of what faces them and what challenges or opportunities they need to navigate.

Deano Giles:

I think with the blueprint it's not just a development tool, it is something that actually overlays the whole talent cycle. So it's it's how we get the right people into an organization and how we use various different measurements to ensure that they're culturally fit but they they also have the potential, the skills, the capabilities, the behaviors to really fit into the organization, considering the internal and external influences. It moves through to the development side, but it's also a tool that actually enables us to effectively performance manage or to elevate performance within the business through great conversations. It gives us almost a northern star as such to point towards when we're having those great conversations and also it supports our talent succession. So it's not just looking at the level that someone sits in, it's looking at how far above and beyond are those team members already demonstrating the potential to grow, to thrive in a kind of more elevated capacity or role. So the detail really helps us inject really careful measurements to really get the right people doing the right things and actually to develop and grow them in the right way.

Dr Amanda Potter:

That's great, isn't it? Because what I love about blueprinting versus competency models having built competency models and frameworks for many years probably in the first quarter of my career with a blueprint because we're considering values, we're considering intelligences so the emotional, social intelligence, cultural intelligence and so on. We're considering so many different aspects in a blueprint because it's truly holistic. We are almost turning up every stone to work out what are the influences that will drive success and drive performance in the organization, and we're creating real line of sight. And that's one of the things I really struggle with with many of the competency frameworks, particularly ones where you get them out of a book or if they're very standardized is that they're not necessarily fit for purpose. The really important thing is to create a really good, standardized, yet agile framework that really works for a company or works for an organization.

Kristian Lees Bell:

So there's a lot of flexibility in this model, by the sounds of it there's lots of flexibility in a blueprint, a multi-use.

Deano Giles:

I think what really makes it something very different to your more generic competency frameworks that you typically get in a lot of organizations is actually how much this is actually tailored not just towards a level but to a specific role. So you know, through the discovery and through the kind of the journey you go on to really understand what's right for us and our business and very different roles within our business, you start to pull through all of the relevant ingredients to kind of create something that has multi-layers towards it and what's great about that is I have a challenge with over-standardization.

Dr Amanda Potter:

Of course I want things standardized because I want data. So if everybody in the organization was assessed against the same eight criteria, for example, no matter their level, it'd be brilliant because I'd have all this fabulous data from all the thousands of employees. But that's not actually the right thing to do. The right thing to do is to create a model that has many layers, so the language changes, so it's appropriate, which is what Dino's talking about. So it's appropriate to the layers, but also there's flexibility in it.

Dr Amanda Potter:

So if you're in a commercial officer role versus a marketing officer role versus a financial officer role, if we're talking at the very top of the organization, actually what they need to deliver individually is quite different in order to drive organizational success versus what they need to drive collectively. So there's aspects of each of the roles, like Deano said, that need to dial up certain things and may need to dial down others. If you have a very strict competency framework where everybody has to be assessed against every single capability or aspect every time, you don't get that agility. The real key to a really good blueprint is it's a starting point. It's a starting point of evidence that can be drawn from, but it's not so strict that you have to.

Kristian Lees Bell:

What about profile matching? I know we've heard of that as being a potential risk.

Dr Amanda Potter:

Oh, don't start me now.

Kristian Lees Bell:

That's one of your topics? It is I know.

Dr Amanda Potter:

In fact, we just talked about it on a podcast with Stewart Dessen because we invited him about personality versus strengths. I kept taking him down the profile matching conversation. So again, that's all about overuse of tools. You can overly use a competency framework or you can overly use a personality questionnaire.

Dr Amanda Potter:

And I talk about a global major bank that for many, many years we were their preferred provider to do their graduate assessments. So we helped them to assess 600 graduates a year and it was a phenomenal piece of work. But their first cutoff so we helped them to assess 600 graduates a year and it was a phenomenal piece of work, but their first cutoff was that everybody had to at least achieve a three out of five on a five point rating scale in order to go through to the next stage, which meant that everybody was at least average on everything. There wasn't the opportunity to be amazing at some things and not so great at others. They wanted everyone to be at least average, which I'd say that the motto of that organization is not. We are the average bank. They want to be unique, they want to be outstanding, and if you try to profile, match people against a standardized set of capabilities without any flexibility, then what you're going to get is you're going to get a homogeneous workforce, and that's not what we want. Dino, what's your view on it?

Deano Giles:

I totally agree.

Deano Giles:

I think when you look at our business, the complexities, even within the park landscape, will vary between parks, from a small park, mid park to a great large park.

Deano Giles:

And therefore, you know, if we, we took our leaders within that park, you know they will have to dial up certain things, dial down certain things, even at different times of the year because of, I guess, the micro and macro challenges that surround them.

Deano Giles:

They're a business in themselves. So, you know, whilst it's really important to have that kind of leadership compass, that blueprint to help guide, I think you know you can never be so rigid to say that. You know, just because they don't fit into a specific hole or they can't go out there and actually, excuse the pun smash it out the park because it's about more around, you know, understanding the blueprint, understanding how they can use that to reinforce, to dial up, to pull on at the relevant times that they need to, because that will vary from month to month and even year to year. So I think it's a good northern light, it's a good compass, but actually, because of the flexibility, it isn't a solid set model. That you know. If you don't meet that criteria to its fullest extent, then actually you're not going to be successful.

Dr Amanda Potter:

And just to give the listeners a real idea of the difference between the parks, because the size of them was absolutely astonishing. Sorry I'm rambling, but they were astonishing. When I met some of your park leaders that's not the right term, General managers when I met a few of them. I was absolutely astonished these organisations as individual organisations and the turnover, the number of employees, the complexity. They are each in themselves large organisations. Could you give an idea of the size and scope of the large to the small?

Deano Giles:

Yeah, so I think we've got large parks that have thousands of holiday homes on them all the way down to kind of the ones that are a bit more quaint, a bit more isolated, I guess. But what we do have is we have a core offer. So when we look at our park landscapes, when you buy in to Haven, there's this kind of core offer, this core thread that runs through. But then actually you know, as you go to each individual one, because of the local community, the landscape where it's situated, they're very, very different and I think that you know, as I said, that means that you know you need a difference in leadership. Some of our parts are quite remote so therefore it can be much more challenging to get team. Some of them, you know, have got large communities around them, so that doesn't become so much of a challenge.

Deano Giles:

You look at some of the coastlines where you know there's poor weather and better weather. Even that, you know, kind of create different layers of of challenge and complexity as we move through the year. So it's interesting, you know, because you know to be a leader at one of our parks, you need to really understand the park, you need really need to understand the landscape, and then you really really need to understand okay, what do I need to pull on from a capability point of view? What do I need to dial up or dial down to really make this park successful? Because if I end up focusing on everything, it just might end up being a jumbled mess and actually we may not be getting as far as we need to.

Dr Amanda Potter:

So interesting, isn't it, that the complexity, the size and the impact it has on actually how you need to lead. That's so true.

Kristian Lees Bell:

So, to recap and to help our listeners to understand, we've been talking about a blueprint and the fact that, while it might look on the surface quite similar to a competency framework, in actual fact there's a lot more flexibility. There's a lot more flexibility, there's a lot more robustness that's built into this model, and the reason for that is because it's the behaviors that underpin something like a blueprint are also driven by values, by strengths, by behaviors that, as Amanda sort of highlighted, are more holistic Deano. Why was it important for Haven to have a blueprint and why now?

Deano Giles:

It's an interesting one actually.

Deano Giles:

I think I joined the organization four years ago and before that we did have a leadership framework known as the Bourne Way of Leading, which had just been developed in around 2019.

Deano Giles:

But obviously that kind of went out of date quite quickly.

Deano Giles:

And what I mean by that is is that you know we had one of our biggest situations in COVID-19, which you know, I guess, affected the nation but obviously created an opportunity for businesses to really think about and consider what leadership needed to be moving forward and coming out of COVID, it gave us an opportunity to kind of re-evaluate what we had and how we took the best bits of that, but also how we then moved that forward to be much more relevant for Haven.

Deano Giles:

And we particularly started with our most senior leaders within Haven, the general managers, because you know they are leading businesses in their own right and and we felt that actually that whilst they're very successful leaders and they're very talented people, you know there's opportunity to look at what we know, as I say, our leadership compass, to help refine, to help re-educate, to help promote considered adjustments in their leadership style, because the landscape had changed and moved on. So I think think you know it was really a great opportunity to do it at that time and almost take a bit of a reset as we thought about Haven and Haven as a business, the opportunities ahead of us, to think about what great leadership we needed to kind of have in place or have developing to support that journey.

Dr Amanda Potter:

It's interesting, isn't it? Because an organization is successful as Haven, and you are a successful organisation and the customer experience is so important to you and I love your values. I mean, there's so much good about Haven there truly is yet what was brilliant is the recognition of what got you to the point of 2020, when we got into the Covid world won't get you out of it necessarily, and that general managers, leaders and actually even team leaders everybody throughout the organization need to operate differently and think differently in order to continue driving success across Haven. And that's the one thing I really appreciate about working with your organization is that you don't hold on too much to tradition. You're prepared to actually look at what else should come down the line, what else would work for you, like the fact that you've been working a lot in the area of psychological safety. You're bringing strengths-based assessments in, where you're really challenging traditional approaches to talent and traditional thinking around talent, which is great.

Deano Giles:

I think that, again, you know that moving away from just having a static model and using the blueprint gives it longevity. It comes back down to that. You know we want something in place that has longevity towards it and, as I said, you know you can pull on the blueprint and dial up and dial down as you need to, regardless of what's going on around you. It just might be that you're putting on different things, slightly different things, at different times, and then swinging around and focusing on something slightly different because the internal or external landscape has changed. You know, as you said, we are a really successful business. We have got what I would class as some of the most talented leaders at our parks, but this actually gives them something to think about when they meet that next challenge or when they meet that next opportunity, and how they can see them overcoming obstacles or working throughout the teams and all of that great stuff.

Kristian Lees Bell:

What are you seeing to be the tangible benefits of the blueprint in your organisation? The?

Deano Giles:

tangible benefits is that we will drive and deliver towards a real consistent approach when it comes to leadership and our thinking towards leadership, and I think what I love about what we have now in place is that it's simple. You know there are four key areas behavioural areas. There are three capabilities in each of those four areas. So, to a leader, you know you haven't got to be baffled by science, you haven't really got to know all of the narrative. What you just need to do is be able to understand what the meaning is of each of those four key areas and, overall, the 12 capabilities, and be able to translate them into what that means for you in the environment that you're working in, the challenges that you have and the opportunities that are being presented. So, you know, keeping it very, very simple is really, really important, but I think you know the to this is is that we're able to personalize learning. I think that that is really really important for us is typically, you can get to a leadership level and you've done a lot of learning in your life by the time to get to that stage. What this allows us to really understand is where everyone is in their careers, in their opportunity to develop and grow and actually tailor and bespoke a learning journey that's going to add high value to them as a person, rather than taking the typical sheep dip approach and taking everyone through the same learning program. I think that's a real benefit because actually that drives huge value for us and the individuals because the investment is in the right place.

Deano Giles:

It also comes back down to, you know know, kind of that whole how do we recruit the best talent, and Amanda kind of mentioned, you know this doesn't just become a set of questions that we ask.

Deano Giles:

You know we look at the B-Talent set of profiles and you know a lot of those profiles will align to the blueprint that we have. So how can we use a bit more of a scientific approach to understand someone, their potential, what energizes them, to really ensure that again, that we're bringing them in and bringing them into the right environment that's going to enable them to flourish, to thrive, to grow and actually to be excited about the work that they get the opportunity to do. And then I guess on the other side of that is is that you know this also gives a kind of levels of those levels in the organization, something that will enable them to think about how they grow upwards and in broadness really, but more so, you know, kind of supports the talent, the succession cycle. We're able again to draw on the talent blueprint to understand what core capabilities are being demonstrated but also where they're stretching and kind of what the potential of growth may be.

Dr Amanda Potter:

I love that you use the word science and I love the line of sight that you're talking about, that there's a real link between the blueprint, the strategy and then the tools that are being used in order to assess and develop talent, to make sure that there's real meaning behind the use of the tools and that they add value. And one thing you said to me before, Deano, is that you know you've got great leaders in the business already. They just need some fine tuning around the purpose and the vision and the new direction of the organization and what it will take. And I think that's a really lovely way of looking at it. We're not trying to completely change anything. What we're just trying to do is just fine tune and refocus their attention in different aspects and how they can grow and how they can learn. So I really really like that and I think, as Haven, are moving into the kind of the next stage, which is really we're kind of well into year two, that we're really starting to get fantastic data now and that's where we start to really get insight.

Dr Amanda Potter:

So the most important thing about a blueprint is actually that collecting data, collecting insight that will provide meaning for the organization, so the organization can understand where are the risks, where are the opportunities and what are the actions that we should be taking as a result. The one thing that really surprises me, having worked with so many organizations, including the large bank that I mentioned earlier, is the lack of central data that there is, and we're lucky because we created B-Talent. It's our platform and therefore all of the data is in one location and it is readily accessible. Data is in one location and it is readily accessible, so if Dino wants, at any point, any data on any population within Haven, it's his, he owns it, he can get access to it himself, and that's just so important. So we need insight for the individual, but we also need insight for the organization.

Kristian Lees Bell:

It sounds as though you found the right approach at the right time, Deano, with a model that can adapt and flex as the organization and as your team and people change as well. I'm curious, though, what you learn, if anything, while implementing the blueprint.

Deano Giles:

My biggest learn and I've kind of held this to my truth for many years, and it can sometimes be the most challenging thing to get to is to embed a blueprint, like we've done, but to ensure that there's ongoing conversations around it is so important. It can't be something that kind of just forms part of a book or a leaflet or is a poster on a wall. It has to form part of ongoing conversations so that you're continuously taking a step back, you're thinking about the opportunities and then you're feeding that into a personal development plan that's going to be really beneficial to you, and I think that's been a real win for us is that you know we've launched our leadership blueprint. We started off with a 360 view, so we actually built, in partnership with Zircon, a bespoke 360 actually that took into account some of the key indicators underpinning each of the capability areas and since then we've used some of the tools, such as strengths, to really understand some of the energies or what energizes our leaders, with really great coaching that followed that actually. So, again, you know, just doing a profile tool and just looking at it on a piece of paper is very different to having the opportunity to sit with a professional coach that can coach you through what it truly means, that insight, that data that comes from that. It's not just beneficial for the individual but us as a collective.

Deano Giles:

But I think it's those line manager conversations that they have on a weekly, bi, bi-weekly, monthly basis that continues to make the difference. Because where, as a leader, you start to grow and start to develop in one area, it may create an opportunity. Where you take, you know you are off the ball in another area. And if it's not caught, if it's not discussed, if it's not explored quick enough, then actually what you do is you start to get in a bit of a bit of an imbalance. So I think that's been my biggest learn is is that it's great having a blueprint, but it can't be static, it can't just sit in a drawer gathering dust. It needs to be a living and breathing document. The context, the language needs to be relevant so that it can be talked about, but not just talked about. It can be interpreted into your own self and really kind of be driven through your own meaning of kind of what you're seeing and hearing.

Dr Amanda Potter:

So interesting. You still use the word capability, because we just can't get away from it, can we? I mean, what do we call them? Behaviors, capabilities, competencies. It's so interesting. Your language is still capability and fundamentally, that's what it is. It's a blueprint of a set of behaviors. But whatever language we use, it doesn't matter, but it's the application.

Dr Amanda Potter:

You're absolutely right, Deano. That's so critical and it's brilliant that you have actually taken our blueprint and put it into a 360 and that 360 is totally bespoke around your areas. But there are so many ways you can apply a blueprint and it's such a shame because I know for many years I've built things that have just been shelved, like you said, because there's never been either the technology or the energy or the budget for organizations to then do anything with it. So keeping it live, I think that's almost harder. Actually, the job you've got, Deano, I think is harder than the job I've got. I can follow a process, I can ask these questions, I get to meet incredible people and build the blueprint, but you actually have to do something. I think your job is much harder than mine, actually.

Deano Giles:

That's why I'll stay here and you can carry on doing the job you do absolutely but I think that comes down to my advice to anyone that's considering the blueprint is not to look at it in a siloed effect.

Deano Giles:

So you know, if you're looking for something that just for development, then the blueprint might not be right. You know you've got to look at utilizing a blueprint through the full talent cycle because it links and connects so easily and so well, to say, the way you recruit, the way that you develop, the way that then you have performance conversations and build PDPs and the way that you then obviously plan for succession. And I think we spent a lot of time over the past year not just looking at this as an opportunity to make our great leaders even greater. We've looked at it and said, okay, so how do we connect this out and how do we ensure that it's seen every stage through that talent cycle, and that's even been something that is much further from what I've done in the past. Typically these have, you know, become the main source of development. Actually, the difference it makes by using this throughout the talent cycle is huge and it just keeps that conversation going.

Kristian Lees Bell:

And I really like the blueprint approach. It wasn't something I was familiar with as a business psychologist years ago, but it just seems as though it's so critical to supporting teams and organizations to just keep on adapting and we've mentioned being flexible and fine-tune behaviors and performance and I like the fact that it's a holistic approach as well, so includes values and strengths which will drive focus and behaviors and be more personally meaningful as well to individuals. So my thoughts are that people are more likely to buy into that more than potentially a standard competency model.

Dr Amanda Potter:

Yeah, I think well, I will agree, because I kind of created it. So yes, Christian, I agree with you, Well done.

Kristian Lees Bell:

You created it.

Dr Amanda Potter:

So, at least within Zircon, our model of blueprinting. I certainly did research it and create it with colleagues. In fact, there's lots of other authors in the organization. The idea that you create a model is not new. Everybody's been doing it for many years. But the idea that you don't just ask questions around competencies and behaviors, that's something I believe is quite unique to us and it's very much aligned with all of the research we've done around all of our products too, around our model of strengths, around our decision styles, all of the other products that we've got. They all relate back to what we think are important to drive organisational success. So, Dino, thank you for believing in us, Thank you for buying the blueprinting approach and buying the 360 and so on. It's great to see our ideas actually deployed and making a difference.

Kristian Lees Bell:

Fantastic. And, amanda, what's been the greatest insight that you have had since working with clients?

Dr Amanda Potter:

I think the biggest one is that every client I work with tells me that they're unique.

Dr Amanda Potter:

When we assess the macro external challenges and the micro internal challenges.

Dr Amanda Potter:

We agree, they are unique Because even though most of us face the same external macro challenges, actually the internal micro they are unique because, even though most of us face the same external macro challenges, actually the internal micro challenges are unique to each of those organizations.

Dr Amanda Potter:

And when you put the layer of aspirations and purpose and meaning on top of that, then you get something that is truly different. Now, if you then apply a very standardized or off the shelf or in a book model of potential or model of talent to that very unique organization, what are you going to get? You're going to get similarity between organizations, which in fact, so you're not then embracing that difference. So the real key is to build a blueprint that really reflects that organization and what it's trying to do and what it would love people to understand and embrace and get behind. So it creates the right climate, it's the right feeling, it creates the right strategy and the delivery of that strategy and it creates a clear line of sight between the ambition of the organization and what people need to do day to day. So that, for me, is the real key, and I love blueprinting.

Kristian Lees Bell:

I do it most of the time yeah, I can hear the passion and, Deano, I can also hear the amount of passion that you clearly have for the project as well. What advice would you give to HR leaders, psychologists, for example, who want to start a similar project?

Deano Giles:

so a key bit of of advice is don't rush into it. I think. Take a step back. Do the groundwork, do the discovery, speak to lots of people, gain as much insight as you possibly can from leaders of the business at all levels. Actually, that can help inform, that can help co-create almost the blueprint that you land, and I think that's really, really important that you gather those views, because you then really end up with think that's really really important that you gather those views, because you then really end up with something that's well-informed but something that's really meaningful and also has the right language in it, and I think you know that's. The great thing is that we went through probably about 13 or 14 different versions before we got to our final blueprint.

Dr Amanda Potter:

That was brilliant.

Deano Giles:

You know some of the important ingredients weren't picked up until towards the end and I think you know that that that just shows that you know, if you spend that time, you speak to the right people through the journey to help build out a blueprint, you truly land with something that is going to carry you forward for many, many years to come. That has relevancy because you know, as I said, the tone of voice and the context that you use to bring it to life. You know, even that bit really needs to resonate when you go out and land something like this and I think we've done that. I think you know we've really done that. I think the great thing is is that you know we've launched this our most senior leadership level within our parks.

Deano Giles:

We've just recently brought that down another level into our heads of department level. So you know we started off with this connecting to circa 40 gms. We're now connecting the blueprint to circa 200 plus hods across our landscape and it's the same model. It's the same capabilities, different contexts underpinning those capabilities and different indicators. But again, it's really relevant. And where we've gone from 12 at our senior leadership level the general managers we've now brought that down to our heads of department, where they have eight core capabilities and four stretch. So again this starts to then feed into the opportunity to kind of identify potential talent of the future and help and support our succession planning.

Dr Amanda Potter:

Thank you, Deano. I think that's such an interesting point and it was making me think about the variety of clients that we have, and this is no secret, because that most of them have been guests on the pod. So if you think about the clients I'm just thinking are Santander, Phillips, Haven, Network Rail and Coventry, so they're just literally people who've been invited on the pod, so they've been guests. So there's no secret that they are customers and those organizations are so fundamentally different from each other. So if we were to design the same stuff for each of those clients, in reality that would be crazy and nonsense. The truth is, as psychologists, that's why we have the great joy of conducting very senior level interviews and getting to the real heart of an organisation. And that's the real key. The blueprint is almost the behavioural soul of an organisation.

Kristian Lees Bell:

Deano any parting thoughts or final insights that you wanted to share with us and our listeners.

Deano Giles:

I think the biggest thing for me is that if you're looking to embed, create a blueprint, then I'd 100% step into it.

Deano Giles:

You know I've worked in learning development for 25 plus years, you know, and I've chipped away at this kind of stuff in the past, and past couple of years have felt and been so great because, a we've worked alongside professionals and experts in this field.

Deano Giles:

B you know, we've taken the time to really understand what it is that our blueprint is there to do is, therefore, and what therefore, should go into it. And then, more so, it's how we then are using that blueprint to really kind of connect and and to bring value not just to us as an organization but to every single leader that is now connected with that blueprint, whether it's you know, the fact that they want to develop and grow, or whether it's that they're you know they're reaching for that next senior leader level leadership opportunity, or whether it's you know that we're getting the right talent through the door when opportunities come up. So I think that's the big thing for me is, you know, 100%, this has been probably one of the most positive experiences in my 25 plus year careers of bringing to life a leadership, a capability blueprint, but just to kind of be able to take a step back and see it connect and see it kind of embed is just yeah, it's just amazing.

Kristian Lees Bell:

Thank you so much, Deano, for coming on the podcast. We wish you all the best of luck. Please keep us posted on how things progress. I know I was involved in a small part of the project with your work in the 360s, so I already know just how much passion and how much enthusiasm general managers and the culture brings there, so I'm really looking forward to hearing more. Thank you, Amanda as well, and thank you our listeners. Please recommend to one friend if you've enjoyed this episode. If you like listening to us talk all things psychology and business, then please hit the follow button.

Dr Amanda Potter:

Thank you, Kristian, and thank you, dino for agreeing to be on the pod. I know it's been a long time coming and we needed to get diaries to align, so I really appreciate your flexibility.

Deano Giles:

It's been amazing and thank you for having me. It's been absolutely brilliant.

Dr Amanda Potter:

And thank you everyone for listening. I hope you all have a wonderful and successful day.

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