The Chief Psychology Officer

Ep74 Unlocking Gen Z: Navigating Early Talent Expectations

• Dr Amanda Potter CPsychol • Season 4 • Episode 74

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The battle to attract and retain high-quality early talent has never been more challenging. With 95% of organizations acknowledging that early career candidates quickly move on when expectations aren't met, understanding what truly drives these professionals has become crucial for business success.

Dr. Amanda Potter, the Chief Psychology Officer sits down with Angela Malik to discuss groundbreaking research that challenges common assumptions about what early career talent wants from employers. Their conversation reveals surprising disconnects between organizational perceptions and reality—like the fact that while companies believe early talent demands remote work, 74% are actually willing to consider office-based roles when properly engaged.

The discussion dives deep into neuroscience, exploring how the still-developing prefrontal cortex of young professionals impacts their decision-making. This physiological reality helps explain why some accept job offers only to withdraw when better opportunities arise—it's not about negotiating tactics but about impulsivity and emotional responses to uncertainty.

Perhaps most compelling is the research on what truly matters to early talent: purpose alignment, authentic sustainability commitments, and meaningful development opportunities. With 88% researching an organization's diversity initiatives before applying, this generation votes with their applications, gravitating toward companies that demonstrate genuine social responsibility.

The conversation also tackles the critical gap in line management training, with data showing 82% of new managers receive zero formal training despite being the primary connection between early talent and the organization. This deficiency directly impacts retention, as the research confirms: "You don't quit a job, you quit a boss."

Whether you're struggling with early talent recruitment, facing retention challenges, or simply wanting to better understand the expectations of the next generation of professionals, this episode provides evidence-based strategies that go beyond assumptions and address what young talent actually wants. Listen for practical recommendations that can transform your approach to early career talent management.

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For more information about the BeTalent suite of tools and platform please contact: TheCPO@zircon-mc.co.uk

Speaker 1:

The next generation of professionals have a new and different expectation of their hiring. Organization and competition is enhancing, with 95% of companies agreeing that early talent candidates are quick to move on. So retaining high quality early talent is a real challenge for so many organizations. So what can companies do about it? Welcome to the Chief Psychology Officer. I'm Dr Amanda Potter, chartered Psychologist and CEO of Zircon and B Talent. Today I'm going to be interviewing I'm interviewing my fabulous colleague, angela Malik, about the research she has conducted over the last two years to understand the motivations of those early career colleagues and what they want from their employer. Hi, angela.

Speaker 2:

Hello, it's very strange to be in the hot seat today With the roles reversed. I actually feel it might be harder to be interviewed. Let's find out. Uh-oh, we'll be fabulous.

Speaker 1:

It'll be fine. So, angela, let's get into it, shall we? Because everyone knows who you are. Let's just start by talking about the research that you've done, and I'm just wanted to say thank you, because I've led all of the white paper research over the last decade or so, so it's so fantastic to find out that one of the team was actually leading and driving research. So, thank you. What was the impetus behind the research?

Speaker 2:

So I was really excited to take the lead of the early career practice at Zircon and one of the things I wanted to do to really dive into that role and do it well, was understand what that landscape looks like for organizations, what current topics are really driving early talent colleagues who are coming into the workforce. So that's why I thought let's just do a report, let's get that research out there.

Speaker 1:

We always talk about data being power, and that's what I love about the report that you produced. Having read it and also done the forward for you, I think that we can make assumptions, because we have a lot of biases, don't we? When we talk about certain generations Gen Z and now we're talking about Alpha, we have expectations or we have these biases about what we think they want. But the fact that you've now done the research, I think it's great, because we can actually have data, we have information behind what we can share with our clients. So I can see that this is really important because we can use it to help and guide and support our customers with the decisions that they're making around their talent strategies. So, angela, just let's chat about who got involved in the research.

Speaker 2:

So I spoke with 100 companies, mainly UK based, but some were global as well, across multiple different sectors and with varying degrees of early talent strategy in place in their organizations 100, that's amazing.

Speaker 1:

So who were the kind of typical profile of contributor?

Speaker 2:

Everyone that I spoke to was either head of talent or involved in talent acquisition, learning and development mostly HR and talent roles. I'd love to give a shout out to everyone who contributed, but unfortunately there's not enough time to list everyone. Could you imagine?

Speaker 1:

a whole podcast of just listing 100 people. That'd be completely bonkers. Exactly.

Speaker 2:

But I'd love to say a warm, warm thank you to Carol Carpenter at Thames Hospice and also Dean Giles at Bourne Leisure for their very, very unique perspectives on their own experiences with early talent, and both of them are really passionate about early talent.

Speaker 1:

I know both of them personally and professionally and actually I can see why you gave a shout out to both of those two individuals because they really are truly committed, aren't they?

Speaker 2:

Absolutely they are, and they've got some really interesting approaches to working with early talent.

Speaker 1:

So how will this research and the report be helpful for clients?

Speaker 2:

So the report has a really holistic approach to the challenges, but the main thing is that it also addresses what to do. So there are some really clear recommendations for each section, and some of those recommendations you can just action straight away.

Speaker 1:

So the report is really about early career. What can organizations do to make sure they are making the right decisions when they want to attract, recruit, retain, develop? Is that right? Yes, and from what I understand and from what I've read, it's really quite practical. There's lots of very tangible suggestions in the report as well, which is great because actually, rather than just being really theoretical, it's very applicable.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I wanted to put out a report that actually says what can we do about these challenges. It's all fine to say these are the challenges, but I really wanted our readers and our clients to come away armed with information and armed with some ideas on how to use that information and really improve their talent strategies.

Speaker 1:

So it's all about early career talent strategy and making sure that it's really aligned to what early career talent want from organizations and making sure that they do the very best they can to retract, retain and develop that talent. Is that right, Angela?

Speaker 2:

It looks at the challenges that the organizations have experienced and then it brings in the early talent perspective to that. So we sort of take the premise. For example, one of the observations was around early talent being more savvy when they're negotiating their contracts during the hiring phase. And actually when I went and looked at what is early talent actually doing, are they more savvy when they negotiate their contracts? I found no. There's not the data to support that. They are not more likely to negotiate hard on their contracts, but what they are more likely to do is just withdraw from the process completely, even after accepting a role. So the data was that one in 10 graduates, after accepting a role, will renege on that offer if a better opportunity arises.

Speaker 1:

That's interesting. We've had that happen to us. Actually. We had a graduate accept a role with us and then got a better offer and went somewhere else, went to one of the big consulting firms rather than a boutique, which of course was hard to hear and hard to stomach at the time. So how interesting I do find that graduates who come into our organisation, who have got undergraduate and postgraduate degrees, they do want to negotiate, but, you're right, they don't negotiate hard. We have had experience of them withdrawing from the process after they've been offered, luckily, I think I can only think of one. So for each of these sections in the report, so around recruitment, attraction, retention, development, integration and engagement, what I really loved about each of those chapters is that you had your research in there, angela, but also what you did is you brought in huge amounts of data from other published research. So I wonder, could you give an example of the type of evidence and the type of story you've got in one of those chapters?

Speaker 2:

One interesting example is around hybrid and remote work. One of the challenges that my own research brought up was that early talent expect roles to be hybrid or remote and won't accept anything else, and the challenge there was that sometimes you just can't offer that or maybe for development reasons, you want them to come into the office and interact with colleagues and learn the role and have their skills. When I actually went away and looked at outside research amongst early talent colleagues themselves, what actually came up was that the vast majority of them yes, they do see it as something nice to have. 63% said nice to have, but 11% said it's not a must and only 26% said yes, yes, it has to be remote or I'm not going to apply. So actually kind of 75% are willing to consider roles that aren't hybrid or remote.

Speaker 1:

Just to get that right. Then there's a mismatch between the organization's perception. So they're saying what we're finding is candidates are being rigid, if you like, in terms of work location and they're only interested in companies who will give hybrid or remote. And actually the research from the young entrant is that actually they're much more flexible than the organisations believe and in fact 74% then are saying actually they are prepared to go into the office.

Speaker 2:

And so that's the bit I really love about the report is that there's a belief from the organisation, therefore putting in barriers because of those beliefs, maybe their biases, but actually, when you looked at the data from the early career perspective, they're saying actually that for many of them is not actually an issue and you can have an organization might be trying to move mountains to get more hybrid roles out there, even though they don't necessarily align with some of the strategic objectives they've got long term and it's potentially for nothing because the data is not supporting that perception that it has to be remote or else.

Speaker 1:

Very interesting. So what were the main messages in the early career report?

Speaker 2:

One of the main messages that I find really interesting is around this misalignment of expectations, both from the organization and from early talent, and that's where the data really has to come in. If you are making assumptions about what your new hires, your new graduates, are expecting and not just asking the questions and looking at the real data of it, you are going to potentially have this issue where their expectations aren't where you put them and they're disillusioned and disengaging and looking for other opportunities. And vice versa too. If you haven't opened that avenue for communication with them and they're not able to sort of understand your own expectations for them and rise to meet those, it could be that the organization gets very disappointed in the caliber of individuals that they've brought in. Even though it's not really around quality they're high quality. They just need a little bit of support meeting those expectations and understanding clearly what those expectations are.

Speaker 1:

I can imagine that, as an employer, if you have someone tell you a candidate, or a couple of candidates tell you that they want something, you might assume that they are representative of the whole rather than going out and checking. But they may not be. They may just be two people who prefer to work in a hybrid or remote way, using that example, versus everybody wants to. So I think it's a really good point and 20 years ago I did some research for American Express. So it's flipping.

Speaker 1:

Yonks ago, plus 20 years ago now, we were looking at graduates rather than early career and looking at what are the motivations of graduates coming into American Express and what would help to attract and retain that talent and for them. At the time it was very much about development and progression. But it makes me think about one of the reflections reading a report is that gap in training for lower management who are responsible for that early career and inspiring them, encouraging them, guiding them, coaching them throughout the organization. I thought it was such a good point. Do you have any data on that, Angela?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, the gap in line management training is massive and actually that did come up in conversations with the organizations I spoke with too. 57% of them actually noted that there was a lack of investment in their organization in lower management and also from outside. Of my own research, the Chartered Management Institute reports that 82% of new managers get zero training. So there's a real dearth of training for these new managers and of course they are supposed to be the safe space, that safe nest for these new graduates to land in and really find their feet within an organization. Those line managers are the key to having that dialogue between the organization and early talent. So we talked again about setting expectations and aligning those expectations. You can't do that without a dialogue and the only way you're really going to have a nice open, safe space to have that dialogue is with a line manager who's supportive, empathetic and competent. You need training for that.

Speaker 1:

So I'm really thinking about that lower management. And without training, it's very hard for them to understand how to lead and how to inspire, because, of course, in order to enhance and enable talent, we need to excite them, we need to point them in the direction of the vision and we need to clarify strategy. But what else did the research show you was the impact of that lack of training?

Speaker 2:

One of the major impacts of that lack of training really is that early talent will move on. You don't quit a job, you quit a boss, right? So 64% of the organizations I spoke with said that early talent moves on within two years. That is actually the result, right? One of the main reasons why they might move on is because they don't feel supported in their role. They haven't got that open dialogue with the organization through their line manager. And another offer arises On top of that.

Speaker 2:

You mentioned something really interesting, amanda, there, around vision and mission, and that is really really crucial to, especially for engagement throughout the process, from start to finish, from attraction right the way through to retaining and development and keeping them engaged throughout their careers. The organizational mission needs to align with the values of the early talent themselves. But also, if you've got a mission as an organization, you've got to find really tangible ways to make that mission livable for these colleagues coming in. They need to know that the work that they're doing is contributing to that mission, but also that that mission is doing real good for the world, real good for society.

Speaker 1:

It's that ESG stuff, isn't it the environmental, social this?

Speaker 2:

generation of talent is really, really purpose-led. That came up again and again in the outside research I looked at. Big, big research organizations have brought this up time again McKinsey, EY, some of the other bigger names out there who have done surveys of hundreds of thousands of early talent colleagues across the globe and it's all come back with that.

Speaker 1:

they are very purpose-led so all of this is coming down to ethics, which is a really important thing within our organization, and integrity. It's so interesting what graduates want, what early career want from their lives, from their organizations, and how it's changed. And what I read in your report was that 88% of students who are looking for an employer are actively researching the diversity and inclusion agenda of their employers before applying. So they're absolutely voting with the click of a button to apply or not to apply if they think that organization is not inclusive or not being fair or doesn't have the right standards or ethics.

Speaker 2:

And that number goes up even higher, I think, to 95%. If you include graduates who are also researching mental health support in the organization, how supportive is that organization going to be of their mental health?

Speaker 1:

Isn't that fascinating and how brilliant then. We work in the world of psychology and we're able to advise organizations with that or at least Christian is, so that's brilliant. Another thing I loved about the research that you've conducted is the executive summary. Could you just take us through some of the conclusions that you made in that executive summary?

Speaker 2:

So the summary, just like the report itself, is broken into the different sections focusing on recruitment, attraction, retention, etc. So we'll just start at the top, shall we Sure? So with recruitment, the main takeaway there was around timing. Timing is absolutely critical. It's a very dynamic space, early talent and there's high volume applications coming in. It's a lot for an organization to process all of that and sort of filter down to the really high quality talent that's coming in. But the issue there is, if you aren't keeping on top of the timing there and being pretty quick about it, early talent is going to move on.

Speaker 1:

Ah, you mean the time from application to responding to the candidate needs to be as quick as possible. You need to be pacey with your recruitment strategy and your processes. And then the time from offer to start date, that also needs to be pretty quick. So really pacey timing for recruitment what?

Speaker 2:

about attraction. The main takeaway is to prioritize sustainability and be authentic as an organization. You can't just talk about sustainability and the ESG stuff. You've got to actually live it and show that. As we said before these early talent colleagues, they're very purpose-led, so they are looking for organizations that do good in the world and aren't just greenwashing. What about retention? Retention is really around managing expectations and keeping that dialogue open so that both sides can express their expectations and everyone can align, but I think there's that management capability bit in there as well.

Speaker 1:

isn't there that we were talking about earlier?

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. That is a big part of the retention. And what about development? The main headline for development is around again that training gap and just closing those skills and support gaps, both offering early talent avenues of progression and opportunities for development and also ensuring that they've got the support up the line to keep moving and progress in their career.

Speaker 1:

Nice We've got two more. So engagement, what was the main message for engagement?

Speaker 2:

the main headline for integration and engagement is really around cultural gaps and bridging those gaps. So one of the surveys I came across in my research was reported that 74 of managers and business leaders found early talent more difficult to work with than older colleagues. That's so interesting, it really is. So there is this challenge, then, to try to bridge those cultural gaps and find points of connection, make interactions within the organization between different colleagues intentional.

Speaker 1:

So it's really about creating inclusive language that, no matter your age, that everybody can use. But how fascinating that our cognitive diversity research identified that age is the greatest predictor of cognitive diversity, and so if we work with people who are different age groups than ourselves, we're more likely to learn and to challenge each other. How interesting that they feel like they need to bridge that gap rather than embrace it and help people communicate in a really inclusive way, using words that everybody understands.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think it goes beyond language, even though, too. So it's around really encouraging collaboration, encouraging that cognitive diversity and embracing the different skill sets and strengths that each side brings. So I think it's not in this report, but what I did read recently around the different types of intelligence, that age groups bring.

Speaker 1:

I just want to then come to the last one, Angela, which is leadership. What was the big learning from your research around leadership?

Speaker 2:

The main headline there was to focus on resilience and mental health. Early talent is coming into the workforce and having different resilience challenges than what older generations ourselves included faced as we came up, so addressing these really requires empathetic leadership and structured support and robust mental health initiatives within the organization.

Speaker 1:

There's an expectation from early career graduates that the organization will support them with their mental health, with their well-being, and they look for that in their organizations, which is, like you said, so interesting. So, from all of that research, what I liked about the report is that you combined the data and the evidence that you collected with the data and evidence of published reports like that of Gallup and McKinsey and other really reputable researchers, so that was absolutely fab. Was there anything that didn't align from your data to theirs?

Speaker 2:

Well, one really interesting thing was around the low resilience. Speaking with the organizations myself, my own research one of the common themes that came up was that this new generation of talent coming through the doors seems to have lower resilience, seems to have higher mental health challenges or increased mental health concerns and the organizations having to respond to those. But when I looked at the research amongst early talent, I saw that while stress was a concern and kind of is a concern across generations anyway in the workforce, they did not actually seem to be as less resilient as they were perceived to be. The other thing was around feedback that they can't cope with feedback. That was the sort of challenge that came up. And yet when you look at the research, they want feedback. They want it really frequently, more than once a week even sometimes.

Speaker 1:

So the belief is that they don't want it and they're not great at taking it. But actually, if you ask them, they want it.

Speaker 2:

They absolutely want it, but it needs to be delivered with empathy. So I think that might be what's happening there.

Speaker 1:

Rather than the. I'm just going to give you some feedback, and here it goes. That makes sense, and I think these contradictions and these inconsistencies are so interesting and so important because that helps us understand why there's a disconnect or why we might get it wrong. So just kind of a last question really for this section, which is what was the most interesting finding.

Speaker 2:

Well, I'd love to actually turn that around on you, amanda, because I'm not used to being interviewed. Let me interview you, cheeky. You're a leader of an organization that regularly hires early talent, and you lead a consultancy and work with clients who face really similar challenges to those in the report. So what did you find the most interesting?

Speaker 1:

I think for me was the fact that we brought the neuroscience in, because I, you know, I love that part of it. For example, the fact that the prefrontal cortex, which is crucial for complex decision making and risk assessment, and long be more susceptible to impulsivity or may struggle with making really calculated decisions that don't bring in emotions, because early career stages span quite a big, wide age range and actually that is whilst the prefrontal cortex is still developing, and so a significant proportion of individuals in that bracket are actually going to be still being driven by their emotions and by the amygdala which is obviously battling that prefrontal cortex. So this really highlights to me the importance of managing expectations, being really realistic with candidates, being really empathic, being fair, being kind, because otherwise what's going to happen is we're going to be triggering emotions that they are less able to control, when we might get some impulsive decision making as a result. So providing clarity, providing guidance and making sure that we communicate at every stage and your point earlier is fascinating, angela they want speed. That's down to that impulsivity and wanting to know everything now, because they haven't built their prefrontal cortex and their rationality and their control.

Speaker 1:

So it creates stress if they don't understand where they are in a process. So what we can do is help to remove that stress and remove the risk of the heightened fight or flight response by being as open as we possibly can and being aware of the situation they are in, so we can mitigate that neurological effect of the stress of job hunting and the impact it would have on their ability to make good decisions. And if we think again so I'm talking a lot now but if we think again about the point that you have candidates accept and then reject roles, this is a great example because they're making a quick decision in the moment Yep, yep, I take the role and then changing their mind, so that for me is the biggest reflection. Having read the role and then changing their mind, so that for me is the biggest reflection. Having read the report and thought about what's happening from the neuroscientific perspective for individuals yeah.

Speaker 2:

and when you take that neuroscientific perspective and then also keep in mind just the huge complexity of the world we're operating in at the moment, the cost of living crisis, the fact that these younger colleagues coming into the workforce now have finished school in the age of COVID and have had to transition into work in a completely different way than the rest of us ever had to, with much fewer opportunities for social interactions, all of that is just amygdala heavy. All of it is new experiences, potential threats, everybody on high alert. That's pushing even more of this impulsive button.

Speaker 1:

Continuing then on the decision theme, the other reflection that I had was the risk of decision paralysis and the inability to commit to a career or a way forward, because I hear and speak to a lot of graduates and they're often surprised by the fact that in my career I was very clear what I wanted to do from a very early age.

Speaker 1:

But I was one of the few. And, if you think about, there's an aspect of the brain called the anterior cingulate cortex, the ACC, which is central to conflict monitoring and decision making. When we're faced with many, many different choices that an early career professional will face in order to select the right career path and make the right decision, that can lead to a decision paralysis. Paralysis because over activation of the ACC might result in excessive rumination, which makes it difficult to commit to decisions, and what it means is that they kind of exacerbate the anxiety, they exacerbate the problem and create stress. We need to simplify processes and help people understand what's important to them, which is why I love strengths. Actually, I love the strengths approach because it's about understanding what energizes me, what do I enjoy and what environments and what teams will I enjoy working in, given where my strengths are and, given the types of activities, I gravitate towards what will bring me joy rather than what should I do?

Speaker 2:

what ought I do? What do I need to do in order to learn, absolutely? And then when you take strengths and we've already said, this generation of colleagues is very purpose-led, so in a sense they, their values, are front and center in their mind already. Combining then their knowledge about themselves, about their strengths, where they might thrive with those values, is going to set them up for success actually.

Speaker 1:

That's just brilliant. I think it's great that we can help organizations. Now we've got this insight and we can share it. Now we've got it, we can share it with our clients to help them make sure that their talent strategy is really aligned with what early career want from those organizations. So that's super cool. All of this is brilliant, angela, and again, thank you so much for taking the lead with researching and publishing this white paper, and I know that Candice had a big part in pulling it together with you, so thank you to Candice too. How can our clients, our listeners to this podcast, access that white paper if they want it?

Speaker 2:

They can go to the white paper section on our website, wwwzircon-mccouk. They can also email me, angelamalik at zircon-mccouk, and I'd be happy to share the research directly with them as well.

Speaker 1:

Thank you very much. Well, I think that's been a really interesting pod, and thank you so much for being in the hot seat, as you beautifully called it, and for being prepared to be interviewed, because I know it's a tough seat to be in, but I've actually enjoyed being an interviewer as well. And thank you for all the insights. I'm really going to start talking about making sure that we look at perceptions from two sides and that we don't hold on to those biases that we have, that we do get data and get evidence and really understand the real truth, and I'm really believing I do a lot more with early career. So, thank you.

Speaker 2:

Thank you, and thank you again to all of the wonderful individuals who spoke with me while I was collecting the research and who gave their insight and their really amazing perspectives on early talent and thank you everybody for listening.

Speaker 1:

If you found this podcast useful, please recommend to one friend, and if you like listening to us talk all things psychology and business then please hit the follow button thank you, amanda, and thank you to everyone for listening.

Speaker 2:

I hope you have a wonderful and successful day.

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Dr Amanda Potter

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Tim Hepworth

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