The Chief Psychology Officer

Ep27 Imposter Syndrome

• Dr Amanda Potter CPsychol • Season 2 • Episode 27

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Imposter Syndrome is something most of us have experienced, or at least been aware of, at some point in our careers, but how can we overcome it? In this episode, the Chief Psychology Officer explores what Imposter Syndrome is, the different biases that contribute to feelings of imposter syndrome, and the underlying causes. Amanda will also discuss Zircon's own research into the link between Imposter Syndrome and resilience, as well as a number of useful changes both individuals and organisations can make to help people overcome the biases that underlie this self-limiting belief.

In this episode, Amanda is being interviewed by Angela Malik.

The Chief Psychology Officer episodes are available here https://www.thecpo.co.uk/

To follow Zircon on LinkedIn and to be first to hear about podcasts, publications and news, please like and follow us: https://www.linkedin.com/company/zircon-consulting-ltd/

To access the research white papers mentioned in this and other podcasts, please go to: https://zircon-mc.co.uk/zircon-white-papers.php

For more information about the BeTalent Resilience or if you would like to complete the Impostor Syndrome/Self-Belief pilot questionnaire mentioned in this podcast and receive a short summary report please email Hello@betalent.com.

Timestamps

Imposter Syndrome

·       00:00 – Introduction to Imposter Syndrome

·       00:54 – What is Imposter Syndrome?

·       01:22 – Ain’t no mountain high enough, ain’t no valley low

·       02:46 – It’s for girls?

·       03:25 – How do you get Imposter Syndrome?

·       04:41 – Out of the ashes of the COVID-19 pandemic

·       05:10 – The Demographics

·       06:07 – ¾ of people experience it!

·       07:46 – I don’t want to talk about it…

·       08:51 – The Young Ones

I want to tell you a story…

·       10:02 – Performance Anxiety

·       12:04 – How do I know if I have it?

·       13:04 – What I felt…

·       15:42 – A real success story

How are you feeling?

·       16:30 – What are the triggers?

·       17:31 – Bias

·       18:19 – I don’t have enough time!

·       19:03 – Life’s a b****

·       19:35 – Let’s go inside no.9

·       20:17 – Perfectionism

·       20:46 – External Locus of Control

·       21:35 – Whose more susceptible?

Listen

·       22:14 – Neuroscience!

·       23:22 – Resilience

·       25:19 – Strengths

·       26:10 – It’s not always seen on the outside…

·       27:28 – Dialogue

·       28:07 – How can I help?

·       29:49 – You never think about yourself!

·       31:03 – How can the business help?

A culmination of our research

·       32:20 – The Questionnaire

·       34:55 – It’s for everyone!

·       35:36 – The end.

Episodes are available here https://www.thecpo.co.uk/

To follow Zircon on LinkedIn and to be first to hear about podcasts, publications and news, please like and follow us: https://www.linkedin.com/company/zircon-consulting-ltd/

To access the research white papers mentioned in this and other podcasts, please go to: https://zircon-mc.co.uk/zircon-white-papers.php

For more information about the BeTalent suite of tools and platform please contact: TheCPO@zircon-mc.co.uk

Speaker 1:

The feelings of being an imposter are something most of us have experienced or at least been aware of at some point in our careers, but how can we overcome it? In this episode, the Chief Psychology Officer explores imposter syndrome. What is it, what are the underlying causes and how can we overcome it? We'll also discuss Zircon's research into the link between imposter syndrome and resilience, as well as a number of useful changes both individuals and organizations can make to help people overcome the biases that underlie this self-limiting belief. Welcome to this episode of the Chief Psychology Officer with Dr Amanda Potter, chartered Occupational Psychologist and CEO of Zircon. I'm Angela Malik. Hello Amanda. Hi Angela. Good morning Malik. Hello Amanda.

Speaker 2:

Hi Angela, good morning, lovely to talk to you today.

Speaker 1:

So, amanda, I think most of us have heard the term imposter syndrome, but can you explain what it actually is?

Speaker 2:

Many of us have heard of imposter syndrome, Angela, because such a large proportion of the population experience it. The feeling of imposter syndrome is when you feel like you don't belong, that you might be a fraud, that you're not worthy, or that you're not good, bright enough or clever enough to be included in a team or to be working at the job or level that you're in, and so you feel fundamentally like you are a fraud or you're not worthy.

Speaker 1:

When I've heard of imposter syndrome before, it's always been in the context of someone who's worked really hard to get to a certain point in their career and they've been recognized for those achievements, but they still feel like they don't deserve to be there. But generally it's always at a higher level of achievement. Does imposter syndrome only affect high achievers.

Speaker 2:

It affects everyone actually, so anybody can get those feelings and whilst people who are exec level or more senior levels of leadership are more prone, I will admit that and actually we get lots of inquiries for coaching from leaders who are experiencing imposter syndrome, the reality is anybody can experience it. Anyone who is pushing themselves to work hard to succeed and to deliver challenging requirements could be in a position where they question their ability or their place in a team or in a role.

Speaker 1:

And does this definition of imposter syndrome line up with the research Pretty?

Speaker 2:

much with the more modern definition of imposter syndrome. The current definition of imposter syndrome is about having a collection of persistent feelings of inadequacy despite success, whereas the original definition of imposter syndrome was much more about pretending to be someone that other people want you to be and therefore losing your sense of self. So it's quite a different definition originally to where we are now.

Speaker 1:

And what's the history of the research around imposter syndrome?

Speaker 2:

So it was originally regarded to be a female syndrome. Only women were regarded to have imposter syndrome initially and it was first described in 1978. And it was described to help articulate why women might struggle more than men to have a place in commercial society. It's no longer regarded to be a female syndrome, albeit some people will say to me oh, do women experience imposter syndrome more than men? I think it's very mixed from my personal experience of the leaders and individuals that I work with, albeit that I have had a massive dose of imposter syndrome in my career.

Speaker 1:

How does one end up having imposter syndrome?

Speaker 2:

Well, I was interested in that too, angela. I was looking to find out why do so many people end up with those feelings of imposter in some point of their career or lifetime? Because generally, most people don't go through their whole life feeling like an imposter, but there's actually moments in time in their career or lifetime Because generally, most people don't go through their whole life feeling like an imposter, but there's actually moments in time in their career or in their lifetime that they don't feel good enough or worthy. The research that I've been doing has pointed to bias and self-limiting belief. So, depending on the biases or the self-limiting beliefs that we have, the combination of these contributes to our feeling of imposter.

Speaker 1:

The self-limiting beliefs sort of remind me of a fixed mindset versus a growth mindset.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I suppose. So People who have self-limiting beliefs and consequently imposter syndrome, I would think, are more likely to have a fixed mindset. But to be honest, that's a whole other topic altogether, and we partner with consulting firm the Mindset Practice and Rich Cook and colleagues and they have a product which looks at growth mindset. It would be great and really interesting to look at the relationship between the growth mindset and imposter syndrome using our new B Talent product. I think that's a great idea, Angela.

Speaker 1:

It seems like during the pandemic, we heard a lot more about imposter syndrome.

Speaker 2:

I think during the pandemic there was a really increased focus and interest in understanding imposter syndrome, and that's both in everyday society people were using the term much more widely but also the research. We're seeing a lot more research papers around imposter syndrome too, and we're part of that. So we've spent the last two years researching and trying to understand the precedence of imposter syndrome.

Speaker 1:

I know earlier you did mention that imposter syndrome was considered initially to be female only syndrome and that you didn't quite agree with that. So do you know what the demographics of imposter syndrome actually are, based on the?

Speaker 2:

research. Whilst it's not a female syndrome, because anybody can have imposter syndrome, the data does say that there are certain groups in society who are slightly more prone and they might be women. They might be the younger people who are striving to achieve, but I experienced it at the senior exec level, to your point at the beginning, that people who are being employed or recruited beyond their capability, or their perceived capability, are the ones who start to question themselves and there is a link with resilience and coping. So people who are being stretched, being challenged and being pushed beyond their capability are the ones who start to question themselves and start to doubt themselves.

Speaker 1:

I think it was in 2019 that Forbes estimated that around 70% of the population faces imposter syndrome at any given moment and, if I remember correctly, I think they said that 75% of executive women have experienced imposter syndrome in their careers.

Speaker 2:

Crazy, isn't it? I think that's such a high number. So three quarters of the population at some point experience imposter syndrome, and to that point, it's not that we carry imposter syndrome around with us in our backpack for the rest of our lives. It really is something that comes and goes, but the fact that imposter syndrome is related to depression, anxiety and low performance, low resilience, as well as impaired job satisfaction, job engagement and burnout, it's really quite worrying that so many people have these feelings of imposter, because those feelings of self-doubt and questioning oneself has really long-lasting and wide-reaching impacts, both for the individual and for the organization they're working in.

Speaker 1:

Given that imposter syndrome is so prevalent and the wide-reaching impact it can have, it's really important to get a handle on that and overcome it.

Speaker 2:

I think it's really important we work out what are the biases that contribute to the feelings of an imposter, so that we can start to understand the biases and nip them in the bud and also start to understand what are the things that can reduce those feelings. So what actions can we take individually and what can we do within teams or within organizations to spot, identify and help and assist people who might be struggling?

Speaker 1:

I know earlier we were talking about imposter syndrome being seen as a female syndrome. Is that just because men are less likely to be open about their feelings?

Speaker 2:

Well, I, wonder, and actually it was even called the weaker sex syndrome by some people. I mean, it's quite insulting, I'd like to say.

Speaker 2:

Shocking and insulting. But you are right. There is some research by Kirk in 22 to say that men are much more likely to avoid admitting that they have imposter syndrome in the workplace because they may be trying to save face or avoid the shame of admitting to the fact that they might have failings or conflicting thoughts, whereas women are much more prone to be open and to express it and to share it. The reality is, if you were to do a web search on what proportion of the population have got imposter syndrome, each article has a different statistic. They range something between 60 to 80 percent. Kpmg just found 75 percent execs have imposter. The data is all over the place, but most of them are saying it's pretty high.

Speaker 1:

It makes sense that there'd be a discrepancy between how imposter syndrome is reported, given that we're conditioned by social and gender norms to behave in certain ways. But I guess with the TikTok generation we're seeing a shift towards being more open about feelings of inadequacy at work and more open about feelings in general at work, and a lot of workplace ills have been, I guess, brought to light in the last few years thanks to social media and thanks to things like the Me Too movement.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think you're right and I really love the TikTok movement by Dr Julia Smith and everything she's doing to talk about anxiety and depression and to help to normalize it. And so I suppose we may find that the younger generation are being much more open to talking about their feelings of imposter because of the preparedness to speak and use psychological terms like imposter syndrome, anxiety, depression, psychological safety all these terms are getting used by the lay person so much more readily now. But I suppose it's about making sure that we don't overgeneralize and use the word imposter syndrome without truly knowing what it is and what are the precedents of it.

Speaker 1:

Speaking of terms, I have heard the term performance anxiety, which I think is anxiety around how well you're going to perform at your job or in a particular project. For example, Athletes experience performance anxiety before a big match or a meet. How is that different from imposter syndrome?

Speaker 2:

Do you know what? I've got a perfect example. I heard an example from Jess Lloyd. I heard an example from Jess Lloyd. Jess joined us this week as a new psychologist in training and she has had a fantastic career as a swimmer.

Speaker 2:

She represented GB in 2012 at the Olympics in the swim relay and I asked her about the difference between imposter syndrome and performance anxiety by the pool and, in particular, when she was representing GB, and she said you could really see someone who has performance anxiety versus someone who's got imposter syndrome.

Speaker 2:

She said that when a swimmer has performance anxiety, they will have all of the negative beliefs and language up to the point of the buzzer, but as soon as they hear it and they're in the water, their mindset changes and they're ready and they have belief, whereas a swimmer who has imposter syndrome takes the imposter syndrome into the water with them and has that internal battle as they're swimming which holds them back from being the best they can be. She articulated it much better than me. I'm trying to use her words, but it was just such a brilliant difference between the two, which is performance anxiety. You have those natural nerves before the event, but once you're in it, you're on it, if you like, whereas somebody who really has imposter syndrome. They carry that syndrome with them throughout the meeting or throughout that event.

Speaker 1:

So performance anxiety is more like stage fright and imposter syndrome is a lot more sticky.

Speaker 2:

It's interesting that term sticky, because most of us don't have imposter syndrome for our whole life. It's not so enduring and sticky that it stays with us in every activity, every event. It's just different types of situations that it rears its head.

Speaker 1:

So how do I know if I have imposter syndrome?

Speaker 2:

its head. So how do I know if I have imposter syndrome? Well, have you ever felt that you were not good enough, that you might get found out that you were feeling like a fraud in some way? If so, angela, you might have felt like you're an imposter. So have you ever felt like that?

Speaker 1:

I've had moments of self-doubt. Of course, I think everyone has at least fleeting moments of self-doubt. But is that really?

Speaker 2:

a whole syndrome. It doesn't sound like it. If you've had moments of self-doubt, you sound like you've been in a really fortunate position with your career and, I think, interestingly coming into our business, angela, as a translator and running a translation business, and then coming in to our business in the role that you're in and then stepping up to be a podcast host. For me, that's a perfect example of a time where you could have felt like an imposter, but I don't think we've seen that from you, which is great, whereas I've had some significant moments of imposter syndrome in my career, even though I'm trained as a psychologist and have three degrees, which seems crazy.

Speaker 1:

Do you mind sharing your personal experience with imposter syndrome so our listeners understand your perspective?

Speaker 2:

So my imposter syndrome really was present up until about 2010. And I know it was 2010 because that's when I had a major tragedy in my family, and up until that point, I would never present any of my own theories around psychology on a stage, in front of my peers, in front of psychologists, for fear of being found out that I might be a fraud, that I may not be good enough, that they thought my articulation of psychology was not good enough or strong enough, and so, as a result, I didn't conduct my own research, I didn't publish, I rarely presented at conferences, I used other people's products, so I was a big user and purchaser of other people's tools, and up until that point, I was pretty much scared. I was a successful businesswoman running a business, but I was using everybody else's theories, methodologies and approaches, and the tragedy in my family was actually that my mum died. Whilst my mum was the most amazing mum and had so much belief in me. For some reason, I was no longer afraid after she died, which is a very strange thing, and actually it's a phenomenon we identified in our winning attitude research, angela that people who go through tragedy of some kind or have some life changing event identify a goal that they want to achieve and then they strive to achieve that goal or they're no longer afraid. And so we identified that with the Winning Attitude.

Speaker 2:

Research and I could see that in myself because 2010 was the start of our research and we started publishing our white papers. Sarah and I started doing a lot of the thinking behind the product, so decision styles. We started building that out because we'd been working on it but not really selling it, started thinking about how can we build that into a true product. And then over the next 13 years, we built Be Talent, we built the suite of tools, we've got this podcast, we publish white papers.

Speaker 2:

There's so many things now that I'm prepared to be on a public forum because I'm no longer afraid, and the most interesting thing about it is that I'm now teaching at a university again. Haven't done that for 30 years and I'm teaching at the master's level and I'm prepared to disagree with what is published in books. I'm just saying look the books do say this about assessment or about psychology at work, but the reality is this. So I've almost gone the other way. I've gone from being too afraid to have my own opinion and to have my own ideas to now being so forthright that I'm fundamentally disagreeing with published authors and saying that's wrong.

Speaker 2:

The reality isn't the truth.

Speaker 1:

You sound like a real success story for overcoming imposter syndrome, Amanda.

Speaker 2:

Well, I suppose. So I don't think it necessarily was through intention. I didn't intend to do it. I think the shock of a life event meant that I just realized that there wasn't any reason to be afraid anymore. The worst could have happened, happened. So I may as well just go and enjoy the thing that I love, which is psychology. And so the reason why I put so much into Zircon, be Talent, the podcast, all of the research, is because I love it. I genuinely do. If people don't get it or don't understand what we're doing and trying to share, that's okay, because there's so many people who do and there's so many people who get something fantastic and positive from the podcast. That just keeps me going, really.

Speaker 1:

Changing a bit of tack, amanda. What are the triggers of imposter syndrome?

Speaker 2:

So there could be many, and so it could be that you don't feel qualified enough to do a job or to take on the responsibilities of a job. It could be that you feel like your colleagues are expecting more than you can deliver within a timeline, or something different from what you actually know. It could be that there's change or ambiguity and that you're not clear, or it could be just volume of work, but the reality is self-doubt is probably the biggest trigger of imposter syndrome or a fear of failure.

Speaker 1:

It sounds like it's very expectations based.

Speaker 2:

It is. It's about setting yourself unreasonable expectations and wanting to be the very best you can be and pushing yourself towards that standard and, in fact, perfectionism bias is one of the biases, which is a moving towards bias. That is one of the causes of imposter syndrome, where we just try too hard to be the very best we can be.

Speaker 1:

Speaking of biases, can you explain, Amanda, what exactly is a bias?

Speaker 2:

A bias is a shortcut In order to process all the variety of information, the massive information that comes in all the time. We need to make sense of the world. And so we have biases, because they are fundamentally mental shortcuts. The reason they become a bias is because we end up using personal opinion rather than facts or evidence in order to make judgment. Depending on our history and depending on our experience of life, we build these heuristics, these almost stories that help us with these mental shortcuts. But these shortcuts are not always helpful, because they can, as I say, be judgment based or opinion based, rather than objective and evidence based.

Speaker 1:

I guess our brains are programmed to make these shortcuts.

Speaker 2:

It's to help save energy, to help save time. They're there for a reason, it's a positive intention. But actually what happens is we don't necessarily give ourselves time to rationalize and to validate those feelings, those thoughts, those impressions. We just use those shortcuts to get to the answer quickly.

Speaker 1:

And so what is the link between bias and imposter syndrome? How does a bias cause imposter syndrome?

Speaker 2:

Our biases, as I say, are developed throughout our lifetime and, depending on our experience, we may be part of very highly demanding families, highly professional environments. We might be going through periods of family and life changes. Each of these things means that we create shortcuts in helping ourselves to get through those difficult times and to cope with adversity. What we've identified through our research is that there is a causal link between each of the different biases that help us to cope with all the adversity and change and to process that information as quickly, as expediently as possible. But the impact could end up feeling like you're an imposter, and in fact we've identified nine biases that contribute to imposter syndrome.

Speaker 1:

So let's go through those nine. What does your research say about the nine biases that trigger imposter syndrome?

Speaker 2:

So some of the biases come from working and pushing yourself really hard to achieve all of the goals despite the challenge, and some are a result of avoiding and moving away from that threat and trying to protect yourself from that threat. We believe that the biases that we hold that contribute to imposter syndrome are either moving towards trying too hard, in other words, or moving away and avoiding the risk of failure, and so there's two types of biases that really articulate those nine.

Speaker 1:

Can you give me an example of some of these biases?

Speaker 2:

One of the examples of someone pushing themselves too hard and working too hard might be the perfectionism bias, where nothing is good enough and you hold yourself against incredibly high standards. An example of the moving away bias might be a fear of failure, it might be a pessimism bias or it could be even an external locus of control bias. So all three of them would be holding yourself back in case you're at risk of failing or not being good enough.

Speaker 1:

What's an external locus of control?

Speaker 2:

bias. So, angela, if you had persistent feelings of inadequacy and then you attributed your success to luck or fate, rather than recognizing the role that you had in delivering the project or the task and just putting that down to everyone else in the team or to the situation, or to the environment or luck, what you're doing is you're not placing any importance on the role that you played and you're having quite a negative bias and slant on your contribution, which can undermine your sense of belief and the role that you're playing in that team. So people who have an external locus of control bias are often fearful that they'll be exposed as a fraud because they're convinced their achievements are due to good luck or good timing or the team around them, but that they didn't have any part to play.

Speaker 1:

Do some people have a greater predisposition towards imposter syndrome than others?

Speaker 2:

Well, it's an interesting point because you know why is it that there's 25% of the population who don't experience it? Because you can have it both in work and at home. You might even feel imposter as a new mum, for example. But I think there's from the research, certain psychological traits have been found to contribute to imposter. So the feelings of low efficacy, perfectionism I've already mentioned neuroticism might make someone more prone to experiencing those feelings. Interestingly, we have started to look at the neuroscience of imposter syndrome too.

Speaker 1:

Well, speaking of neuroscience, let's dive into that. What actually happens in the brain when we experience imposter?

Speaker 2:

syndrome. So, from the neuroscience research, when an individual has imposter syndrome, this increases their level of cortisol, which totally makes sense, doesn't it? Of course, because it's the stress hormone and it decreases their levels of serotonin and dopamine, which, of course, are the neurotransmitters and chemicals that help us to feel positive and good. So higher cortisol means higher levels of stress and anxiety, which can stop us from being effective and feeling confident and assertive, and can have a really negative impact on our work because of the jitters that we feel, which, of course, is the reward and motivation neurotransmitter can result in us having low motivation, low drive, which can have an impact on our results and our ability to achieve. So, yes, there are proven links between imposter syndrome and the neurotransmitters in the brain, which is fascinating.

Speaker 1:

So high cortisol, low serotonin, low dopamine. It sounds like we need to do something to change that balance. How do we do that?

Speaker 2:

Resilience is absolutely key. We've conducted a study and looked at the relationship between imposter syndrome and resilience in an initial pilot study. So it was run by one of our team, emily Willis, who was a placement psychologist with us with the University of Kent and it was her placement thesis. And what we did is we looked at the relationship between the imposter syndrome questionnaire and our resilience questionnaire.

Speaker 2:

I was hoping for a curvilinear relationship between the two. In other words, people who had low self-belief and felt like they're in imposter syndrome and people who had high self-belief almost too much self-belief would end up having low resilience and that people who had just the right amount of self-belief would be highly resilient. But we didn't find that. What we found, in fact, was a highly negative relationship between imposter syndrome and resilience. So people who are prone to the feelings of imposter syndrome are low on resilience and people who have high self-belief are high on resilience.

Speaker 2:

There wasn't a curvilinear relationship. There was, in fact, a linear relationship between self-belief and resilience, a positive relationship between self-belief and resilience, and a negative relationship between imposter syndrome and resilience. So the key here is that if we want to reduce the amount that we feel like an imposter, we need to build our mental health and our resilience. Resilience will help us because we will therefore access the right neurotransmitters for success. We'll be able to release dopamine and serotonin. We won't be releasing so much cortisol and generally we'll be feeling happier, healthier, fitter and we will feel like we deserve to be there. We'll feel like we have a place in the team or in the organization.

Speaker 1:

So resilience is one way to overcome imposter syndrome. Are there any other approaches?

Speaker 2:

Well, I'm going to go back to strengths again because if we have the opportunity to identify and use our strengths at work, we're more likely to be happy to be engaged, to be productive and to feel like we are contributing something of value. There's just so much data to say that a strengths-based culture is a positive, engaged and productive culture, and so, if that's the case, logically it makes sense that we are less likely to see people feeling like they're an imposter. However, if we work on the basis of people having to comply to competencies and to do what's required from a skills-based, we are more likely to see people trying to fit in and experiencing those feelings of imposter syndrome.

Speaker 1:

So, with that in mind, amanda, how do I know when someone's struggling with imposter syndrome? What are the signs I should look out for?

Speaker 2:

Well, sadly, they're not always observable. They're often inward rather than outward signs giving credit and successes to other people, maybe talking down about oneself and even sabotaging one's own success and ability. So some of those things might be visible, but some of them will be hidden. And, given what we said about men earlier trying to hide their feelings of inadequacy, they might work even harder to cover them up. And the reality is, people who experience imposter syndrome pressurize themselves to work harder to keep up with people and to stop other people recognizing their failures so that they don't feel unworthy. As a result, they're going to become masters of acting and presenting themselves in a certain light. Well underneath the water, if you like, they're paddling like crazy, trying to keep up.

Speaker 1:

So then, what are some of the external signs?

Speaker 2:

I suppose it would be that external dialogue, what someone's saying about themselves, and that, I think, is really where we can see it, because that's when people will say things like I'm going to be found out. I lucked out. Thank goodness you're in the team. Without you I couldn't have done it. If anyone can do it, you can. I had loads of help to get to the results. It wasn't just me. I made it up as I went along. Those sorts of things where they don't see the role that they played in the team or in the task. They put it down to the external environment as the situation or to their colleagues, rather than to the role and the contribution that they made.

Speaker 1:

So, as an individual, then if we recognize that someone might be experiencing imposter syndrome, how might we help them reduce those feelings?

Speaker 2:

There are a number of different recommendations for how you can help someone with imposter syndrome. The first thing of, of course, is always going to be to acknowledge those feelings, to help them, understand them and understand the situations where they particularly feel that way, and so having someone to talk to is the first step having a trusted mentor, someone that you are able to really open up to, to share the feelings, so that they can challenge that negative dialogue and really question why you might feel like that in those situations.

Speaker 1:

So, essentially, someone with imposter syndrome really sounds like they need a confidant. They need someone they can open up to and be authentic with. Is that what you would recommend if I wanted to help someone one of my colleagues who I thought had imposter?

Speaker 2:

syndrome. I would encourage you to speak to them, to ask them lots of questions, to acknowledge their feelings, to emphasize the positive that they contribute and the difference that they make, to challenge their negative dialogue, to ask them how valid it is to get examples of why they think like that and to reflect on what might be more realistic and to help them to check their language and check their dialogue when they're talking about themselves. So I think the kindness and gratitude and positivity from you can really help to make a difference in the mind of someone who's feeling like an imposter, and so that confirmation and that positivity from you can make a real difference.

Speaker 1:

What if I have imposter syndrome myself? Are there things that I can do, or that someone who is experiencing imposter syndrome can do, to overcome those?

Speaker 2:

feelings. Interestingly, you could, for example, note down and remember some of the successes you've had. That'd be a great way of doing it. So focus on all the things that you've done well and the things that you have contributed to and the difference that you have made in people's lives or in a team's success.

Speaker 2:

You could do something kind, because that helps us with the release of serotonin. You could show gratitude to your colleagues. That's also a great one for releasing the right neurotransmitters and hormones. And the other one which, of course, it comes from the work that we did with Matthew Benjamin and the podcast we did with Matthew Benjamin, which was brilliant looking at self-liberating beliefs and converting self-limiting beliefs. You could create a self-liberating mantra for yourself that really describes the good that you do and what an honest and fantastic person you are, and so if you could just write down a few words in a sentence that describe the great side of you and the difference that you make in your family or friends or colleagues life that you could say to yourself when you're struggling, that could also be incredibly helpful.

Speaker 1:

you could say to yourself when you're struggling. That could also be incredibly helpful.

Speaker 2:

What can an organization do to help their employees overcome feelings of inadequacy at work? Well, we've mentioned resilience and we've mentioned strengths, so there are two things that organizations can do is that they can very much focus on. How can they create a resilient organization, how can they improve the resilience levels of the employees and make sure that they're mentally healthy and fit and well as individuals first. Second, make sure they're using a strengths-based approach, that everybody is given the opportunity to do the things that they enjoy, that they are energised by and therefore are being given the opportunity to operate at their best at work.

Speaker 2:

The next is to make sure that there is a psychologically safe place to work as well, and that mistakes are seen to be inevitable part of the learning process and not due to a single person's failure or underlying failings. And so it allows individuals to admit when they don't have all the answers, so they don't have to feel like they're a fraud or they're not good enough. And so it allows individuals to admit when they don't have all the answers, so they don't have to feel like they're a fraud or they're not good enough. And so, by creating that psychologically safe place, people will feel more comfortable talking about how they're feeling and maybe more prepared to talk about the concepts like imposter syndrome and feelings of not belonging so those sound like really good strategies to overcome imposter syndrome.

Speaker 1:

I think it's really exciting, too, that all of the research that we've been conducting over the last couple of years on imposter syndrome has culminated in this new questionnaire that's coming out. Can you explain what that questionnaire explores and what the report ultimately?

Speaker 2:

produces. It's a really good point, angela, because we have spent the last two years really trying to understand and articulate what is imposter syndrome and understand the biases that contribute to imposter syndrome and, with the help of Emily Willis and Jessica Ross, both of whom have been fundamental to the research on imposter syndrome, together we three have started to articulate the nine biases that are precedents to imposter syndrome and we have articulated these in a new questionnaire. And this new questionnaire what it does is it assesses your propensity for each of those nine biases, so the extent to which you might be prone to pessimism, bias control bias, perfectionism bias self-sabotage, fear of failure and so on. And depending on your propensity for that bias, it will give you an indication of how likely you are to feel and experience imposter syndrome. And the combination of those biases will give you a different feeling. So we'll have a different set of emotions.

Speaker 2:

What we realize from the neuroscience research is the release of those neurotransmitters and chemicals creates a feeling and we interpret that feeling into an emotion.

Speaker 2:

And that's the point of the imposter syndrome questionnaire is that, on the basis of these biases will be a propensity for a feeling, and we know that there's a relationship between positive and negative affect and imposter syndrome from our previous research, and so we know that these biases therefore create either positive or negative feelings and those feelings then get interpreted as imposter syndrome. And so, to answer your question, what someone would get is if they answered the questionnaire, which is a whole series of questions about under 100 questions they get a little at the moment because we're in its development phase they get a summary report identifying what are the potential biases that might contribute to imposter syndrome and what are the positive aspects that could help them to overcome it and what are some of the coping strategies that they could put into place individually to overcome those feelings if they were to have them. It's a really exciting project and a really exciting potential new project for Be Talent that we may be launching over the next year, once we've got it completely ready and developed.

Speaker 1:

Sounds like it's going to be very useful for anyone struggling with feelings of inadequacy or just wanting to improve their resilience in the workplace as well.

Speaker 2:

Totally and I don't know if it will be a tool that you use independently. I'm saying that I'm about to run a workshop with one of our clients using this tool, but the workshop is on imposter syndrome. So we're running a in-house workshop on imposter syndrome, using the questionnaire to help people understand the potential biases that they have that contribute to imposter syndrome. But if you were using in a coaching setting, it would work beautifully with resilience or psychological safety or strengths, because they're the three that, from our research, I think they connect the most effectively with Well, thank you, amanda, for a very interesting conversation, as always.

Speaker 1:

Thank you, and if our listeners have any comments, questions or suggestions on what we've spoken about today, you can contact Dr Amanda Potter on LinkedIn or follow Zircon on LinkedIn. Thank you, angela, thank you everyone for listening and thank you, amanda.

Speaker 2:

Thank you, Angela, and I hope everyone has a lovely day. Thank you so much for listening. Take care everyone. Bye.

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Dr Amanda Potter

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Tim Hepworth

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