Ep18 Optimise Your Brain Chemistry with Meditation

In this podcast we interview Belinda Matwali. Belinda is a spiritual meditation and inner work mentor and guide. In her words she "works with people to help them to connect with their essence, make peace with their self limiting beliefs, and lean into the magic of their highest potential". 

In this episode of the Chief Psychology Officer, we (Angela Malik and Dr Amanda Potter) will talk to Belinda about the importance of meditation and nutrition and its impact on wellbeing and performance. We will also look at the relationship between psychology, neuroscience and meditation and the difference between meditation and mindfulness. Finally, we have a few tips and recommendations to help you get started to try meditation.

The Chief Psychology Officer website is now available https://www.thecpo.co.uk/   Please like and follow Zircon for more podcasts and articles at https://www.linkedin.com/company/zircon-consulting-ltd/

If you have questions or would like to speak to Dr Amanda Potter please contact her via LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/amandapotterzircon or via email: TheCPO@zircon-mc.co.uk 
For further infromation about Spiritual Meditation and Nutrition or to contact Belinda please go to  https://www.listenuptherapy.com/ or https://www.belindamatwali.com

Timestamps

Meditation & Nutrition

·       00:00 – Introduction to Meditation & Nutrition

·       00:28 – Why should we touch the sun and eat the earth?

·       01:17 – Belinda Matwali: Career History

·       02:55 – Acceptance of Meditation

·       03:16 – Not strictly taught on its own

·       04:01 – Listen Up Therapy

·       05:53 – Why is this so important?

Nadi

·       07:44 – The science to perfect nirvana

·       09:00 – Dopamine & Serotonin

·       09:29 – This seems to make logical sense…

·       10:22 – The Levels of Meditation

·       11:11 – Master of your own body & mind

·       12:48 – Connect with the past

·       13:55 – Active Meditation & the 5 Senses

Dharma

·       15:01 – An idle mind is the devil’s plaything…

·       16:35 – Prajna & Mindfulness

·       18:03 – Nutrition

·       19:16 – The gifts of the Earth

·       20:34 – I wanna be healthy, but I just love food!

·       21:17 – Nirodha

·       22:11 – (Not so) Cruel Intentions

Dhatu

·       23:18 – You’re feeling sleepy…

·       25:16 – Exercise

·       26:06 – Gotta love that Neuroscience!

·       27:00 – Neuroplasticity

·       29:18 – Watch where you work…

·       30:10 – Where do I put down my mat?

Namaste

·       31:57 – Tips for taking up Meditation

·       33:15 – Joining up to Listen Up Therapy

·       34:17 – The end.

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Transcript

Angela Malik: 0:05

Welcome to this episode of the Chief Psychology Officer with Dr. Amanda Potter, Chartered Psychologist and CEO of Circon. I'm Angela Malik, and today we're talking about one of my favorite topics, meditation and nutrition, joined by Belinda Matwali, who is a spiritual mentor and meditation teacher. Welcome, Belinda. Thank you for having me.

Dr Amanda Potter: 0:25

So, Amanda, why did you select this topic? So, I don't know very much about meditation or the impacts or how we could use mindfulness or meditation to be more productive, happy, or effective at work. And Belinda's the expert, and I would love her help to understand some of the simple things that we could do to bring into our lives to help us to embrace meditation both professionally and personally, and to understand what some of those benefits might be. And finally, I wondered if Belinda, if you could share some of the insights that you've had around nutrition as well because of your experience and how nutrition might help us to focus and to spend time more positively on meditation.

Angela Malik: 1:13

Belinda, why don't you start by telling us a little bit about yourself?

Belinda Matwali: 1:16

Sure, thank you. I first came across meditation around about 12 years ago. I was working in investment banking and I was studying nutritional therapy, and it just really wasn't a very happy time for me. To cut a long story short, I took a sabbatical, I went traveling, still didn't know anything about meditation, but I ended up meeting different meditation teachers along the way and trying out some different things. And it was when I found myself in India and introduced to some meditation masters there. There was kind of like a deep recognition in my body or my soul that this is something that I was really missing. And so then I've spent the next 10 years learning meditation with them. I've done 19 different levels of meditation. They offer 30, so I kind of call it like a university for meditation. Yeah, that's just been such a huge foundation for my meditation practice. I came back to London at the end of 2018. And what feels exciting about that is the wellness world has moved so much. When I was feeling lost in my investment banking job, meditation felt so woo-woo. I didn't really feel comfortable trying to seek it out. Um, it didn't really feel aligned with who I was at the time. Whereas now, obviously, we have this huge trend of meditation and mindfulness. And I think people have heard about the benefits and sometimes still feel a bit lost about meditation, but there's definitely a thirst and much more interest than what there has been in the past.

Dr Amanda Potter: 2:51

I think there's such an acceptance now of the benefits of meditation for well-being and for happiness. And I'm really interested in understanding both the psychological and the neuroscientific links with meditation, which I've been doing a little bit of research for this podcast, but I'd love your insight as we go through.

Belinda Matwali: 3:12

When you start to look at meditation more deeply, especially the history, it was never really taught as a standalone practice. There is a lot of psychology that goes with it naturally, especially when it comes to kind of egoic states and how we're relating with other people and bringing more awareness to that. If you're arguing with people all the time and you're not living a healthy lifestyle, it's going to be incredibly hard to sit and be quiet with yourself because you do have all this internal noise going on. So, in some ways, meditation was seen more kind of the top of the mountain or the top of a pyramid. And underneath it, there was a huge foundation of other practices that were kind of based around spiritual psychology, relational wellness, emotional intelligence, and also our physical health.

Angela Malik: 3:58

So, Belinda, I understand that you co-founded an organization called Listen Up Therapy. How did you come to do that?

Belinda Matwali: 4:06

Well, this segues into, as I mentioned before, when I was came back to Europe in 2018. Before coming to London, I actually moved to Ibiza and I met the other co-founder there, Matthew Benjamin, who is now also my husband. I was fresh from a trip to India and you know was sharing with him all about my meditation journey. Matthew was in, I think, the final years of his psychotherapy studies at Metanoia, which is an institute here in the UK. And so he was sharing with me about his interest in therapy and psychotherapy. We had some really interesting conversations about this overlap between therapy and meditation and how it had helped both of us. It just felt like a really natural progression when we moved back to London. Matthew's like, I really want to give back specifically to the music industry, which he's worked in for over 30 years. So when we originally founded the company, it was with the focus for people in the music industry, creative industries. We now serve people from all industries, but what we find is that people from music and creative industries often feel that they're really understood by us. They kind of know a little bit about our personal journeys because Matthew has been a public figure in the music industry world. It's hard for people not to know about him. Pretty much everyone in our team has worked in the creative industry or in the music industry at some capacity. So that's just kind of been a huge part of how everything came together. I think nowadays people are also really wanting to feel like they're part of a group where they're understood. And I think that's what listen up therapy provides for a lot of people, and it's definitely the kind of people that we attract in.

Dr Amanda Potter: 5:52

So, Belinda, I think that's great. It's such a brilliant story, and how fabulous that the two of you came together to build your business. Can you explain to us why meditation is so important to you personally?

Belinda Matwali: 6:06

I want to start by just saying like what meditation is as well, because especially here in the West, the term gets used a lot. It gets used interchangeably with mindfulness. Meditation is about connecting with our being. We are called human beings, and we're really taught how to connect with our human aspect, especially at school. We're taught about that we have these thoughts, emotions in our body, and we learn to identify with that human aspect very, very strongly. We generally don't have a lot of influence or guidance about how to connect with our being unless we have very, very spiritual parents. So meditation is a way for us to connect into our being, which is this eternal, infinite aspect within us. And so for me, when I was feeling like something was missing, I really think for me, it was that I wasn't connected to that being aspect. I felt like I had like an emptiness to me. So when I've been able to learn meditation, it's being able to fill that hole a little bit and feel connected to myself again. And, you know, with that, then does come so many benefits like creativity and inspiration and feeling more confident in intuition. Meditation also really helps to calm my anxiety. I notice the difference if I have a few days where I don't meditate. Not that I'm going to go crazy, but just that kind of nervous flutter calms back a little bit. Whereas when I'm meditating regularly, it's kind of calming down that aspect of my nervous system.

Dr Amanda Potter: 7:43

It's so interesting what you're saying around what meditation does for you, because the science completely supports you. From a physiological perspective, it's absolutely linked to the reduction of stress, of course, because our heart rate decreases, our blood pressure can reduce, and our respiration can reduce as well. But I find it fascinating what happens from a neuroscientific perspective, because I've often been a bit of a sceptic about meditation. Was introduced to mindfulness maybe 10 years ago. I'm not particularly good at sitting still or reflecting. I'm a very active person. But I can't argue with the science. The science shows that meditation calms the sympathetic nervous system, which of course is all to do with the fight or flight response. So when we encounter a threat, our sympathetic nervous system kicks into action and releases the stress hormones, cortisol and adrenaline. And meditation helps to reduce the amount of norepinephrine or adrenaline that we reduce. So it's fascinating that link between meditation, the sympathetic nervous system, and norepinephrine. But I was even more excited that meditation increases our level of dopamine, which is the reward and motivation neurotransmitter, and serotonin. And serotonin is really hard to access. It's one of those hormones that's particularly hard to get hold of, which is fantastic for our mood regulation and can help us to overcome feelings like depression. All of the science supports you. And I was quite surprised by the amount of science that supports meditation as well.

Belinda Matwali: 9:23

Like you said, even like for anyone that has a basic knowledge of the nervous system and how the body works, it just makes total sense that when we're in a relaxed state, we're not going to have that flight-flight response. And we're more in that part of the nervous system that is just making our heart beat, making the lungs move, letting digestion happen. And I think people don't realize that when we get stressed, it just interferes with all of those functions in our body. When we're stressed, it shuts down our digestive system. And when we're breathing in a really shallow way, that tells our body, like, oh, I must be stressed. And so just by relaxing and kind of getting out of our own way, it can do so much for our health because our body can just get on with its growth and repair functions. And that's the beautiful thing about our bodies. It's just we just need to give them some rest and some space, and so much inner healing starts to happen.

Dr Amanda Potter: 10:19

So you said earlier there were 30 levels of meditation. I was doing a little bit of research for the podcast and was looking at the Headspace app, and they were talking about 16 different types of meditation. So it does sound like there's a real variety of techniques and tools that you can use. Do you have any favorites?

Belinda Matwali: 10:40

Yeah, well, I'll just say there are definitely a lot of different types, and I'm a huge proponent for everyone finding the type that suits them. We're all very individual, so as much as we have different tastes in food and music, there's going to be different meditation techniques that suit all of us. There are many, many different types of techniques for people that are just starting out and beginners. I definitely recommend a technique that involves the physical body because this will really help to calm the mind. So the mind and the body are two sides of the same coin. So if you're feeling really stressed or angry about something, you know, you don't just want to go and try and sit and be calm. That's going to be very dissonant. So sometimes doing something like a progressive muscle relaxation where we squeeze the fists and then let them relax, like that can be really good. I'm also a huge proponent for shaking as a technique to kind of release stress, release pent-up energy. And then after that, we can relax. So the things like the progressive muscle relaxation or the shaking is that we're getting the body to do something and we're releasing this, as I said, frustration, stress, emotions. And then after that, we we tend to find like a natural relaxation. So I think these techniques are all really good for priming and preparing the body. And then it is a matter of like trying some different stuff, feeling like a child, curious in the playground. You know, I like to use music in the beginning with people, different breathing techniques. As I said, sometimes movement. So, especially for people starting out, it's not going to be the sitting and lotus, not moving a muscle, trying not to think, you know, that's sometimes where we get to. So I just want to preface we have like a meditation technique, which are the things that align us, which can be this moving, breathing, and then ideally, we do want to have a space where we just let it all go and we just sit and be with ourselves. And that's what I call the meditation bandwidth.

Dr Amanda Potter: 12:47

So many things that you have just said resonate with me, actually. It really brings me back to some of the research we've done for some of the earlier podcasts. It reminds me of the shaking. We talked about the importance of standing up and shaking your arms and shaking your legs if you're anxious or stressed or angry, because it helps dissipate the adrenaline. And we also talk about the physiological psi, which is the double inhale and single exhale, which helps to reduce the carbon dioxide in the bloodstream and in the lungs, and then it really gets to the real core or the base of the lungs as well, which doesn't normally get very much air. So you can get rid of the carbon dioxide at the real bottom of the lungs, and that can remove that sense and feeling of agitation, that sense of anger and frustration. So both of those I think are fantastic. I'm going back to the point that I'm not great at meditation. Angela, we talked about this, didn't we, yesterday with a colleague Katie, both saying, neither of us are great at this. We're both very active and driven, and we push ourselves constantly. But Katie shared a brilliant technique that I've now tried that she and Sarah have worked with a client on, which is uh the concept of active meditation. If I just take you through the steps, Belinda, I'd love to hear your feedback on it. So the model that Katie shared with us was the 54321 grounding technique, particularly for anxiety. And she said the goal of the exercise is to use the five senses and focus on the moment. So you start with a deep breath and then you ask yourself the following questions. What five things can I see and you acknowledge them? What four things can I touch around me and you touch them? What three things can I hear and you notice them? What two things can I smell and you remain aware of them? And what one thing can I taste? And so this isn't Katie or Sarah's techniques. They've taken this from the five steps of mindfulness grounding techniques from an author called Schuckler, but it sounded to me something that I could definitely do because it feels more active than passive. And I love your feedback on that, Belinda.

Belinda Matwali: 15:00

Sure. Yeah, I have a different definition for active meditation. So I'll share that afterwards. But yeah, you can see with this, it's just giving the mind a job to do. So rather than the mind getting lost in a story or worrying about something in the past or the future, you're giving it this anchor point of like, okay, I really need to use the senses to notice what is what is happening right now. So this is what we'd term as a mindfulness practice. It's really bringing us into the present moment and we're still aware of what's happening in our external environment as well as possibly the internal. Like, you know, how am I feeling when I smell this thing or see these things? So then for us that are more experienced with meditation, we normally do take things a step further and just focus on the internal and go even deeper and deeper, and that's how we kind of differentiate the mindfulness practices to meditation. And as I said, in the West, people use these interchangeably all the time. I'm just speaking from some of the lineages where in Sanskrit they have a lot of different words for these practices. So people all use these interchangeably, I think, in the West.

Dr Amanda Potter: 16:10

I think that's a really good point that we use the terms interchangeably in the West. And I think that's really helpful to help us understand the difference between mindfulness. So that's a mindfulness practice that I've just shared that Katie and Sarah talked about. But actually, you're saying meditation is another step further, and it's very much about what's happening on the inside rather than what's happening on the outside.

Belinda Matwali: 16:35

Yes. So if we look like for anyone that isn't yoga and meditation, like the eight limbs of Patangili is a very, very classic text that yoga teachers use, and it goes kind of on the pyramid that I alluded to earlier of like we start with like how we relate to other people, how we relate to ourselves, we're being kind to ourselves. We then look at things like asana and you know, physical postures, you know, working with the body to make sure the body's feeling good. We then kind of work with breathing, and then we're turning our attention inward to potentially different points of concentration, and then we're really just coming into what I call like our inner space and going deeply into our inner space. So mindfulness kind of comes within that journey, but we can go deeper. And I think that that is important because we all need to start with where we are at, and mindfulness has so many benefits, you know, and so many people are suffering from overthinking and anxiety, and mindfulness is great, and we need to hone that. It's a really important skill for meditation, but there is also further we can go on the journey, and for me, that's really about whether you're a spiritualist or a scientist, there is a part of us that is eternal and not changing. And I believe for us to feel really happy as a human, it's about connecting in with that. That is what helps us really weather any storm.

Angela Malik: 18:01

So, Belinda, as we were preparing for the podcast, you mentioned nutrition playing a key role in meditation and its success. Can you elaborate on that?

Belinda Matwali: 18:11

Just linking back even to our conversation about anxiety and fight and flight in our nervous system. A lot of people probably don't realize that even the food we eat is capable of listening a response in the nervous system. Caffeine's a really obvious one. Yes, it gives us a boost and we feel like we can do more work, but it is putting our flight and fight response into action. Our adrenals are working and we're having those causal and stress hormones floating around. Even things like eating a lot of sugary foods, we're gonna get the same kind of response. And even things like food intolerances can also cause stress in our body. So I just want to kind of underline this as we might not feel stressed in our minds when we eat coffee or sugar or a food that we have an intolerance to, but it does create a stress response in the body, and that can lead to underlying anxiety, and that's gonna make it harder for us to feel comfortable in our bodies. So that's kind of one principle I look at. I also look at principles like grounding foods and mineral-rich foods. So, grounding foods, it's simple, it's eating things that come from the earth, you know, slow-cooked grains, slow-cooked root vegetables. Minerals are really, really important in our body. Our bones are obviously made of minerals, and then we also have some really important glands in meditation, like our pineal gland, which also needs minerals to function and be healthy. So the pineal gland is basically like a transducer that you have in a TV that turns energy into pictures. So that's what happens in meditation when we're deep in that inner space, deep in the internal state, we are connecting to you know the quantum from a spiritual science perspective. And our pineal gland is a transducer to take information and put it into visuals. People often see colours and things like that when they're meditating. So, like, if our pineal glands are not healthy and functioning, and our body's not healthy and functioning, we really feel like stuck, there's not energy moving, we don't have motivation, and we don't want to connect. Or on the other end of the spectrum, we are so airy and flighty, and in our mind it's difficult to ground. So, this is like a bit of a spectrum of all the different ways that eating correctly can really help us to feel more grounded, more centered, and then more open to be able to sit in meditation.

Angela Malik: 20:33

So, then what are the pitfalls that stop people from looking after their health or eating the right things if the benefits are so great?

Belinda Matwali: 20:41

I think that's the same with meditation, isn't it? Like from studying nutritional therapy, I get so many clients coming in and I'm like, wow, you know, people know that they should be eating healthy. You know, it's not a big secret, but we have so much psychological attachment to foods, and so often it is comfort eating, or our gut bacteria have become addicted to certain foods. So the gut bacteria are producing different chemicals that make us crave food and make it, you know, really hard to stop. But you know, so much of our health is really down to psychological things.

Dr Amanda Potter: 21:16

It is fascinating, isn't it, that what we eat and how we look after ourselves has such a profound impact on how we feel. And I can really notice that personally. I do find that there's a big link between what I eat and how I feel, and particularly I notice when I'm depleted, when I'm tired and when I'm feeling down or when I'm feeling low, then I find that it's less easy for me to eat those grounded foods and I actually want the things that are not good for me. And I know from a neuroscientific biological perspective, actually there's reasons for that. But having to push against it and say, no, actually, I'm gonna feel worse if I eat those things, that takes real persistence, endurance, and a good set of habits. But every now and then I give in.

Angela Malik: 22:04

I wonder though, if it's more about being intentional about it or not, because I find if I make an executive decision to have the donut, okay, if I ate three donuts in a row, I would feel physically unwell. But if I'm intentionally making a choice, intentionally being in the moment and enjoying that experience, I don't feel negative later from that, as long as I'm not overindulging. But when you're intentional about it, then you tend to make more healthy decisions anyway. So maybe it's more about being intentional as well.

Belinda Matwali: 22:37

I completely agree, Angela. We're all humans, and I don't know anyone that never has a treat or never has anything sweet. It just doesn't work. And it is about making those decisions consciously. Life's so much for enjoyment, whether it's food, your meditation should be bring you joy. That should be not something that you feel like is a chore and you don't want to do. I think everything in life, having that joy and passion is just so vital.

Dr Amanda Potter: 23:03

We've talked a little bit then about meditation. I think we've started to understand the difference between meditation and mindfulness, which is incredibly helpful for me. We've started talking a little bit about nutrition. I wonder if we should talk a little bit about exercise and sleep as well, because I've started to think about the role that sleep has. So, Belinda, do you have any insights on the impact that meditation has on our sleep and then our mood?

Belinda Matwali: 23:31

There is a lot of research done in this area now because obviously we're living in a population of chronic insomnia. I'm blessed to have a lot of friends who are sleep coaches and really working in this field. And I'd say that like even our sleep hygiene really sets us up for the next day for our meditation practice. So it works both ways. So if we're like practicing good sleep hygiene, not being on our phone, not being near bright lights before bedtime, and really giving ourselves time to unwind, it's so helpful. I have a lot of clients that this is their preferred time to do a meditation practice before sleep. So I also want to quell any myths about you have to do meditation in the morning. For a lot of people, it's great. I love meditating in the morning. I feel like it really sets me up for my day. But I know there are some other people that do prefer it at nighttime. And then if we just go back to some of those benefits that you were talking about before in the body and the stress response, you know, if the stress response is not being elicited all the time, we're gonna sleep better. Sometimes people feel wired at like 10 o'clock at night and they can't go to sleep. They get this second wind. And so the more that we're doing things that help support the nervous system response, it's just gonna calm everything down and we're definitely gonna sleep better. And because meditation's often paired with psychological practices, with either gratitude or feeling good about ourselves, that also helps to quieten the mind and stop us worrying so much about certain things in our life.

Dr Amanda Potter: 25:07

Yes, it does seem that sleep, nutrition, meditation, mindfulness is having a significant and positive impact on us. And I wondered if we could now go to exercise. So, what's the link then between meditation and exercise?

Belinda Matwali: 25:24

Well, it's really just making sure like that our body is feeling happy and content as well. As I said, everything's interconnected. So the body and the mind are two sides of the same coins. I think we all know whenever we move, we feel so much better in our head. And as we mentioned before, like if we're feeling emotional or upset, you know, going for a walk, doing the shaking, it's really important to do that. And then the body feels kind of more content to be able to sit to go into meditation. So it's just absolutely essential, really, that we're looking after ourselves from this 360-degree point of view. Amanda, from your side, what are the psychological benefits of exercise?

Dr Amanda Potter: 26:06

Well, the psychology and the neuroscience research are very much in keeping with what Belinda's been talking about. The first thing is when we exercise, we release dopamine. But the research is so interesting on this because if we enjoy exercise, if we enjoy running, for example, we're more likely to release more dopamine than if we don't enjoy it. And in fact, if we don't enjoy running and we make ourselves do it, we get such a depletion of dopamine after the fact that we've done it that actually it discourages us to run again. But the key is to focus on the exercises that we enjoy. So we release dopamine, which is a positive reward and motivation neurotransmitter, but we release more of it when we do the exercises that we enjoy. The second benefit of exercise is that once we've completed the exercise and the dopamine has been released, this primes us for learning and for neuroplasticity. Because we've been working out and we've released adrenaline and its cousin dopamine, this primes our bodies for learning because of neuroplasticity. There have been great human studies that have shown changes in the brain waves, the activity, and the modulation of the brain as a result of the exercise. So, exercise, in other words, is great to give us the capacity to take on new information and learn.

Angela Malik: 27:29

I think I've seen that with the studies they've done with dancing. When they've studied groups of dancers, they dance for half an hour and then they study their brains afterward. And certain areas of their brains have grown in that very short time period, even because they're moving, they're they're getting that dopamine hit, and they're learning as well. They're learning new steps or they're learning some choreography. So it's all going hand in hand.

Dr Amanda Potter: 27:54

Claire Dale, the author of Physical Intelligence, who is a previous podcast guest, will absolutely agree with you because she was saying that dancing is the greatest thing that we can do, if you can remember. And Tim was encouraging me to sachet across the downs when I listen to my podcast rather than walk. I've tried it. I do get odd dances.

Belinda Matwali: 28:14

And also, um, yeah, or playing a musical instrument or music, it's the same thing that you were alluding to that, Angela, about how it kind of strengthens different parts of the brain. But with the dopamine and changing the brain waves, yeah, like the same for meditation, as I mentioned earlier, like finding a practice you love is so important because as you said, like with the running, if you don't like it, you know, you're not going to feel in your body to do it again. And it's the same with the meditation. And then when we go into meditation, oh my goodness, there's been so many studies about how it helps us get out of the stressy beta brain waves and more into the super relaxed alpha, which is great for creativity. And depending how long you're in the meditation, then you you may even go into the theta and delta, but alpha is kind of like the light meditation state, and I really feel that's where creative ideas and intuition drops in, and there are just so, so, so many benefits on that level.

Dr Amanda Potter: 29:09

One last question I have just while we're talking about exercise and meditation and psychology is around the environment because the research has shown that if we work in an environment that has very high ceilings or we work in the outdoors, it helps us with our ideation and we're more likely to come up with abstract ideas and be more thoughtful than working in a room with a low ceiling. And it also helps if we're standing. So to have a standing desk is a good thing because we're more likely to remain alert, and if the more that we blink, the more alert we are, the less that we blink, the more calm we are. All of these things are interacting with our level of alertness and our ability to identify new ideas. So the key things are high ceiling, standing desks. And blinking really for remaining alert and attentive. What's your view, Belinda, in terms of meditation and focus? Where would you recommend, for example, you meditate?

Belinda Matwali: 30:11

Well, really, we just need to start with what spaces we have in our homes. I don't want that to ever be a barrier for people. Obviously, meditating in nature has huge benefits. We just feel good when we're in nature, our nervous systems co-regulating with the earth. So that would be like if we could pick what would be the most ideal, we'd have all of that around us. But if we are living in a tiny flat with a low ceiling, then you know we just need to make that work for us. And typically, then talking about an environment, it's like if you're in a really little flat and you don't have a particular meditation space or corner, how can you just shift things up so that you don't feel distracted by, I don't know, the TV or whatever you've been doing previously? And I just lean into really simple things there, like washing your hands or washing your face because water's really good at shifting energy, might be using an essential oil or incense, or you may have a little cushion, then you're like, Well, this is my meditation cushion. And just by shifting things around psychologically can help you be like, Okay, this is my meditation time, and I'm gonna meditate here, and then you can put the cushion back afterwards. But it's interesting what you say about that other research. I've not heard about that before, and a lot of meditation when we go deep within is about being aware of the space around us and the space within us, and then also it's widely known that you know, if we lay down as opposed to sitting up, we do go into a subconscious state a lot more easy. So the position of our body is really interesting, as you said, like being super alert when we're standing up, starting to have that middle ground when we're sitting down, where we're a little bit alert but relaxed, and then in the laying down, typically going into that more subconscious state.

Dr Amanda Potter: 31:57

So I think that we should ask you, Belinda, about what hints and tips you could give our listeners if they would like to start meditation.

Belinda Matwali: 32:06

Sure, I think a really great place to start is generally with some beautiful breathing practices. This is just helping us to connect into our body and start to be like, well, what does it feel like to be in my body today? What's happening in my body? And we have a really great short 10-minute audio on our Listen Up Therapy website where it's guided. And I'm also explaining some of the benefits behind the slightly deeper diaphragmatic breathing and how that does help us get into our parasympathetic nervous system. We have that as a free audio. I think you said you'd link that in the show notes. And then for anyone that is curious about kind of going beyond the mindfulness and a little bit deeper or experiencing a range of techniques and maybe finding out then which one feels best for you? I then have a meditation course which kind of goes through all that step by step, everything from setting up a space to kind of like an inner roadmap for the inner space and these different techniques to try and yeah, just some really helpful information that you could develop, even your own practice.

Angela Malik: 33:13

So, Belinda, how can our listeners contact you if they would like to join some of your sessions or or learn some of the techniques you've spoken about?

Belinda Matwali: 33:21

Uh, the best way is to find us at the Listen Up Therapy website, which will be linked in the show notes, and also our Instagram, which is at ListenUp Therapy. And there you can find out more about my sessions where I can combine some of the trauma-informed psychotherapeutic approaches with meditation. So I do a lot of work one-to-one with people where I blend both of those things together as well as the nutrition. And yeah, there is more information there about the courses and other things we have coming up.

Angela Malik: 33:50

Thank you so much, Belinda. I've loved this conversation. I'm definitely going to try some of the techniques out myself and check out the Instagram and the website.

Belinda Matwali: 33:59

Great. Thank you so much for having me.

Dr Amanda Potter: 34:01

I agree. I think it's been great. I have been a lifetime skeptic of meditation and mindfulness. This research has been useful for me to open my mind. I'm also going to try the techniques.

Belinda Matwali: 34:13

It's been a joy being able to connect with you both today.

Dr Amanda Potter: 34:17

Thank you, Belinda, so much for sharing your most definite insight and your wisdom. And I also am looking forward in the future to interviewing your partner, Matthew Benjamin, who's a psychotherapist. And I'm going to be exploring with him the role of music in psychotherapeutic counselling and coaching in a future podcast. And I just want to say, as usual, thank you to the team. Thank you to Helen Hargrave and Attila Simene in particular, who have helped with the preparation of this podcast.

Angela Malik: 34:50

If you like our podcast, please click the follow button on your podcast platform so you know when it's available. And if you are interested in checking out Belinda's organization, Listen Up Therapy, the website for that is www.listenuptherapy.com. Please also like the Zircon page on LinkedIn to hear about products, podcast research, accreditation news, and other thought leadership that we post there.

Dr Amanda Potter: 35:17

Thank you everyone. Take care. Stay safe.